Omega and future raid concerns

[Kaliesto]

But this is kind of silly to compare a video game with a theme park as they're nothing alike at all as I noticed some people trying to compare that. Also intended or not I don't believe that is healthy for a person nor fun, games shouldn't try to stress you out or it defeats the purpose of video games.

[BillyKaplan]

But this is kind of silly to compare a video game with a theme park as they're nothing alike at all as I noticed some people trying to compare that.

How are they not similar? Splitting it into various types of content (let's say, story, raiding, crafting and gathering, glamour) is the various attractions, to be more precise, the various sections of the theme park with each offering you sub attractions. You don't have to go on every ride, and you'll naturally find attractions that you don't care for. At the same time, you'll find attractions you want to go on, but you're not tall enough to ride them (in your case, not enough time to pug content). However, it's still designed so that everyone can find at least something they're into.

Also intended or not I don't believe that is healthy for a person nor fun, games shouldn't try to stress you out or it defeats the purpose of video games.

Fun is subjective, as is stressful. The stress level is the main reason why I don't run Savage as the whirlwind of mechanics, alongside the min-maxing, is not fun for me. It sounds like it's not for you, either. At the same time, you'll find a lot of people who care very little for most other forms of content.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Here is a idea I can propose in order to keep these raids healthy and intact, how about that players HAVE to defeat Exdeath AND Neo Exdeath in order to receive the reward but as separated Savage Raids? Also same deal with kefka and future raids. This way everyone wins on this compromise without the loss of the raids being special because future raiders will still have to get through Exdeath first and then proceed to Neo Exdeath as a separated raid to get the full reward!

I really do feel that Savage Exdeath is hard enough by himself, and having to deal with another savage form really starts to take the toll on the player mentally.

That removes a significant part of the challenge. Despite their being a checkpoint, you still have to clear both fights, which adds a sense of accomplish and grandiose to the final encounter. Exdeath and Clown Kefka aren't really much without the spectacle that follows, especially the latter.

And while this may be your experiences. That does not mean its universal. I, for instance, have no mental fatigue from these fights. I love that they were implemented as a Savage Exclusive. Your compromise is simply making Savage easier, albeit in a roundabout way. It also ruins the spectacle. Exdeath gets sucked into a blackhole then... you leave the instance to queue in again and fight Neo?

The compromise is being able to unsync this with full Echo buffs once 5.0 hits which will require much less skill and time to complete. Not a zero amount of it, but much more forgiving than now.

Even queuing into Neo Exdeath now with i370 will being significantly easier. People were farming A4S long before Stormblood despite it being one of the hardest fights released in its heyday. Unfortunately, many of the people complaining don't simply want to unsync and enjoy the experience later. They want it now. To which I say, practice and beat the fights like everyone else did.

[Kaliesto]

Well I offered a alternative solution that should please everyone currently involved in this, but if no one is willing to compromise then this seems to be more of a problem of a community not willing to share their toys with the other which goes to back to a point why I think there is some form of dishonesty going on here. I think what I've offered as a solution is pretty sound that doesn't step on anyone.

I don't throw the word dishonesty around very lightly, and I've seen my fair share MMOs on how they all ended up destroying themselves because the community didn't want to compromise on anything.

[BillyKaplan]

I don't throw the word dishonesty around very lightly, and I've seen my fair share MMOs on how they all ended up destroying themselves because the community didn't want to compromise on anything.

The compromise is being able to unsync this with full Echo buffs once 5.0 hits which will require much less skill and time to complete. Not a zero amount of it, but much more forgiving than now.

[LadyKairi]

Well I offered a alternative solution that should please everyone currently involved in this, but if no one is willing to compromise then this seems to be more of a problem of a community not willing to share their toys with the other which goes to back to a point why I think there is some form of dishonesty going on here. I think what I've offered as a solution is pretty sound that doesn't step on anyone.

I don't throw the word dishonesty around very lightly, and I've seen my fair share MMOs on how they all ended up destroying themselves because the community didn't want to compromise on anything.

It is not sound pleasant at all. I love how it is set up in the omega final tier fights. Finally killing the “gateway” boss (exdeath/kefka) and seeing the transition to the next part of the fight was unbelievably satisfying. It feels so good to see that “cinematic”, the difficulty of the content even makes it better, because you feel like you’re actually fighting a big bad boss. I don’t know bout the others, but I got a sense of danger and excitement, because it was the boss’s way of saying “Hah! I was just going easy on you, fools!” Separating them into separate fights ruins that. It made it feel really good to be a raider, especially when I used to think I wasn’t good enough to raid.

Harder difficulty and gear is fine and all, but it isn’t exactly something to look forward to. I’ve never been more excited for the next Raid tier. Can’t wait to see what they do next <3 sorry if I sound mushy. I just really REALLY like raiding...

[BillyKaplan]

“Hah! I was just going easy on you, fools!”

Literally "this isn't even my final form"

[HyoMinPark]

if no one is willing to compromise then this seems to be more of a problem of a community not willing to share their toys with the other which goes to back to a point why I think there is some form of dishonesty going on here. I think what I've offered as a solution is pretty sound that doesn't step on anyone.

I don't throw the word dishonesty around very lightly, and I've seen my fair share MMOs on how they all ended up destroying themselves because the community didn't want to compromise on anything.

Re: compromise-- The Savage raiders have already compromised enough with the more casual/non-raiders. Our content has gotten progressively easier throughout the tiers to be made more accessible to the general playerbase: the first two Savage floors in Deltascape and Sigmascape have been complete jokes. Even the third floors are no Cruise Chaser, and Creator was the easiest tier of Heavensward. Even Extremes are easier than they used to be. Why should raiders and hardcore players that want challenges be the ones constantly making compromises just because others want the content they get without putting in the time and effort for it?

As I said before when you brought up Shinryu and Nidhogg: people were demanding both story mode fights be nerfed so as they required little more than a thought to them. Do you not think they'd do the same to normal mode Neo and God? Neo's Grand Crosses would probably be removed, as well as God's Forsakens (and probably Heartless Archangel would be removed as well), and that would basically leave them as nothing more than shiny striking dummies. I'd rather not see the fights so hollow, because sure the Savage ones have harder hitting mechanics and slight mechanic variences from normal mode, but they aren't really skeletons or shadows of their Savage self. I don't think the general playerbase would take kindly to Grand Crosses or Forsakens considering the past trend of crying for nerfs in fights that don't need it, and those are the mechanics that keep the fights interesting.

Savage is supposed to be hard; it's supposed to be difficult. Hence the name "Savage". If it's too mentally taxing for you, then that's fine; I have no issue with people who cannot mentally handle the demands of Savage. But that's not really a reason to have fights like Neo or God Kefka taken away from the raiders. That I do take issue with. Especially since they've already given up the difficulty of their original content so that more people can raid easier.

Yoshida has already said Savage won't be getting more difficult; not even a progressive difficulty from one tier to the next. Inb4 "You have Ultimate now"--yeah, and they're taking away the possibility of one in 4.51. (And still people ask for Ultimate to be made into a "normal mode" fight, or to be easier, or to be just outright removed from the game.)

And you know what? I work full time, have little time to game, and don't have the time to invest in savage. Not everyone's circumstances are the same. As an Aussie on JP servers, there is an added layer of difficulty to it all as well.

I was going to school full-time and still managed to clear Deltascape Savage during that while keeping up with my studies and getting high marks. Same with Sigmascape, save God--I was out of class by the time I cleared him if I recall, or in the middle of finals. That was all either me doing Party Finder (rarely) or just meeting with a static for 3 hours a night, two nights a week.

Plenty of people I raid with work full-time jobs or have families or go to school full-time, and they still find the time to dedicate to Savage. Yeah, you may clear at a slower pace, but they still dedicated the time to it because they wanted it. Same thing with high latency (since you mentioned your server situation). It's all about finding workarounds instead of using these things as reasons why you should get things.

[giwaman]

Okay? All I see here is excuses excuses excuses...
Well my take on this is both Normal Savage, or even Ultimate is for everyone to expirienced, Study, and Succeed.
takes alot of luck practice and dedication, I pugged all turns and Cleared all of it within 2months and I think I wiped 37 times before clearing O5s
wiped 11 times for O6s, 50+ times for O7s and 80+ times for O8s. To me It's a very satisfying feeling, maybe If I had static I could of cleared them all in a month? But ya pugging was enough, If I can clear all turns everyone can even if it's from Party Finder!

[Ash_]

So perhaps the OP could have worded things slightly better making his post more clearly about the final forms instead of the story which seems to have sidetracked some of the discussion.

But I agree with the OP. It's an issue with me because the fights are iconic of the series, and they should be available to normal mode players. Savage raiders get plenty for their effort. And you know what? I work full time, have little time to game, and don't have the time to invest in savage. Not everyone's circumstances are the same. As an Aussie on JP servers, there is an added layer of difficulty to it all as well.