Omega and future raid concerns

[Sapphire_Dianta]

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Seconding this. I'm honestly baffled that people essentally are asking for a "Normal version of Savage, but not the normal kind of Normal, a different Normal" fight. The entry barrier for Savage is lower than ever, and it really doesn't take that much effort to get into. I would even say that OS5 and OS6 are about the same difficulty as the new EX primal. And as for the time required to complete them, my static group (some people I've been friends with across different games for years) meet up once a week for about an hour and clear the first three, then poke at Kefka now and then if we have time later on in the week. We don’t take it seriously, we're just there to have fun. Ultimately, the only thing stopping you from doing Savage is... well, you.

[Ameela]

I bought my copy of Final Fantasy VII but I can't beat Emerald Weapon, why isn't there an easier version so I can experience the fight? I'm a paying customer I deserve to see everything in the game!
That's just silly, every RPG has some kind of difficult super boss which not everyone is going to be good enough to fight.
You don't see people complain that the Ixal, Moogle and Namazu quests are locked to crafters only, I'd love to see the storyline and get the rewards from those quests but unfortunately I have neither the time nor the patience to delve into crafting, but you don't see me demanding that content be available to me so I can experience it without putting in the same ammount of effort as others.

[Renato]

I bought my copy of Final Fantasy VII but I can't beat Emerald Weapon, why isn't there an easier version so I can experience the fight? I'm a paying customer I deserve to see everything in the game!
That's just silly, every RPG has some kind of difficult super boss which not everyone is going to be good enough to fight.
You don't see people complain that the Ixal, Moogle and Namazu quests are locked to crafters only, I'd love to see the storyline and get the rewards from those quests but unfortunately I have neither the time nor the patience to delve into crafting, but you don't see me demanding that content be available to me so I can experience it without putting in the same ammount of effort as others.

Not really a fair comparison...FFVII is a single player game that you can play on your own time and don't have depend on 8 other people to know different mechanics, have the gear to stand up to the boss and actually have the skill to actually do the fight. Same thing with the crafter's quests you mentioned. All those things depend you on and the time invested.

Did you not play ARR? Coil was all on a higher difficulty, plenty of people didn't ever get to experience that, so they made story mode in HW.

I got ARR day one but stopped playing it because I couldn't get into it and was frustrated with the constant server issues. I came back during HW when DRK was released because it was my favorite class.

I've been looking through everyone's comments over the last few days and I understand some of the arguments but my thought still remains.

I worded my concerns over the story incorrectly as nothing is left out of the story but if anything the raids themselves just felt empty. Being a fan of FFVI and Kefka, just fighting him on Normal with God Kefka being left out just felt incomplete. Same with with Exdeath. And sure people are saying just do Savage but my argument still comes up that A12 had a normal mode AND a savage mode and it didn't hurt anyone. People got to do both. Savage had better rewards and the more difficult mechanics. People who don't care to do that still farmed the normal mode because it gave somewhat, cool-looking gear. That is why I'm confused. It was unnecessary to remove that feature.

[Ameela]

Not really a fair comparison...FFVII is a single player game that you can play on your own time and don't have depend on 8 other people to know different mechanics, have the gear to stand up to the boss and actually have the skill to actually do the fight. Same thing with the crafter's quests you mentioned. All those things depend you on and the time invested..

And interacting with other people in order to beat difficult content is exactly the kind of thing that makes the MMO genre unique and games like XIV interesting, if you want to beat challenging super bosses without interacting with others, might I direct you to the 12 or so other games in this franchise that might be more up your alley?
Why play an online game if all you want to do is get into a level and beat it while treating the 7 other people there like NPC's? And more importantly why should these online games change the way they're designed to cater to that kind of playstyle?

[Consurgens]

My only issue is with the Omega raid in particular: for a game that presents itself as some sort of celebration of the franchise - full of references and nostalgic throwbacks - having iconic, popular fights like God Kefka locked behind a less-accessible skill-based content seems counterproductive. I don't mind that Winged Brute Justice is savage-exclusive because Winged Brute Justice is his own thing in his contained XIV universe, having no nostalgic appeal to the average Final Fantasy fan, but I understand it might be frustrating to someone who grew up with FFV - who only got into FFXIV because FFV introduced them to the franchise - have a hard time trying out glorious 3D HD Neo Exdeath first-hand once it's released.

Every other reference I've seen so far, with the exception of some Coil bosses, have been largely accessible to the playerbase: the Warring Triad trials, the Crystal Tower series, Return to Ivalice series, the angelic FFIX Alexander Prime... Why is Cloud of Darkness in her full form much more accessible than God Kefka? Why is the accessible Normal Kefka so underwhelming, having the whole statue and Dancing Mad theme progression going on so well only to abruptly end in it's climax because "dude now clear savage to find out haha"? At least Normal Exdeath felt like a more complete fight.

Had the Omega raid been it's own thing with unique fights instead of trying to earn nostalgia points, I wouldn't mind and I actually appreciate the extra phase for those who dedicate themselves to the harder content.

On the other hand, to OP: I strongly encourage you to try out the current savage tiers, as they're considerably accessible even in Party Finder. You don't need a static to clear any of the 8 omega fights, just patience and willingness to improve. You can also wait until more powerful gear is released and give the fights a try later on.

[Ameela]

snip

That's exactly the point.
What's the point of fighting these badass classic FF baddies if they're barely harder than a regular dungeon boss?
Personally as a fan of V I'd be much more miffed if Neo Exdeath was represented by a fight where everything he does barely tickles you and his mechanics seem incomplete, you already mentioned Kefka in story mode barely feels like a complete fight, why would you want to see Neo and God in a state like that? Just so you can say you fought them?
I mean yeah you fought and beat them good job but they're still bastardised versions of what they could really be, there's no satisfaction in doing a normal mode fight I think.

People often defend easy modes in games because it's a way for you to experience the story without having to deal with unmanageable hours of gameplay, that's fair and all, even if I don't agree, but in this case you're not losing anything by doing normal mode over savage, you're still getting the same exact story with or without the presence of Neo and God.

If anything I'd say they provide an incentive to get better at the game, learn your class and rotation with the goal of one day being able to beat God Kefka for real, because then the fight becomes much more satisfying than if it had simply been handed to you on a silver platter by making it as easy as Lakshmi.

[Renato]

Every other reference I've seen so far, with the exception of some Coil bosses, have been largely accessible to the playerbase: the Warring Triad trials, the Crystal Tower series, Return to Ivalice series, the angelic FFIX Alexander Prime... Why is Cloud of Darkness in her full form much more accessible than God Kefka? Why is the accessible Normal Kefka so underwhelming, having the whole statue and Dancing Mad theme progression going on so well only to abruptly end in it's climax because "dude now clear savage to find out haha"? At least Normal Exdeath felt like a more complete fight.

Had the Omega raid been it's own thing with unique fights instead of trying to earn nostalgia points, I wouldn't mind and I actually appreciate the extra phase for those who dedicate themselves to the harder content.

^^YES!! This is exactly how I feel!

[FeliAiko]

Every other reference I've seen so far, with the exception of some Coil bosses, have been largely accessible to the playerbase: the Warring Triad trials, the Crystal Tower series, Return to Ivalice series, the angelic FFIX Alexander Prime...

Everything in this game is accessible. Even Coil was accessible, it just wasn't given to players on a silver platter to where just turning up was enough to get through it. Funny enough, SE damn near did everything but that by the end of ARR (Echo, nerfed mechanics/damage, easier access to gear upgrades) and yet people still complained about difficulty.

Why is the accessible Normal Kefka so underwhelming,

Welcome to the NM version of Raids. How are you expected to take a boss as a serious, imposing entity when they barely cause you any trouble in beating them in the first place? It's no coincidence that the Coil bosses (Twin, Nael, Bahamut) stand out like they do against those that came after.

having the whole statue and Dancing Mad theme progression going on so well only to abruptly end in it's climax because "dude now clear savage to find out haha"?

What do you mean "abruptly end"? The story is you faced Kefka, you beat him, and that's it. The Savage exclusive content is just that. It has no ties to the narrative.

At least Normal Exdeath felt like a more complete fight.

It's worth considering that, at the time, the general playerbase had no inclination that there was going to be a Neo version - especially the way it played out with it being an actual separate fight. So by the time Sigmascape came, there was already the expectation that there would be a second version of Kefka that would be Savage exclusive. Knowing that would make it hard to approach the Kefka fight in isolation as a 'complete' fight when you know that Savage was going to provide more.

[Consurgens]

That's exactly the point.

Just to make it clear: I agree with the notion of making players work for their reward. As someone who grew up with FFVI, I did clear God Kefka despite not enjoying the fight from a tank point of view, just because I enjoy the challenge of beating that divine clown again - now in HD. The question however remains of why wasn't the winged Alexander Prime locked behind savage, considering how much of a badass he is in FFIX? Why was the final boss of FFIII a 24-man raid boss in ARR, rather than a higher tier of challenge just like the Coils were back then? Yiazmat is a well-known FFXII super boss that takes like 1 hour to defeat, but you can readily face him in the Ridorana Lighthouse.

That's what puzzles me: the choice of content for the more nostalgic aspects of the franchise. Should it all be present in easier content or should they make it gated in some way to encourage players to improve?

Besides, Normal Exdeath was rather challenging for many DF groups on the first week after release. I feel we can say that to an extent fights like normal Shinryu, Nidhogg and Tsukuyomi are enough to be both challenging while also accessible to most of the playerbase. More middle of the road fights is what I feel this game needs to reduce the skill-gap discrepancy. Not everything needs to be extremes: it doesn't have to be either Nael or Lakshmi.

points made

There is a clear difference in accessibility regarding savage and 24-man/normal trials and there are numbers to corroborate that.

My point regarding Normal Kefka was never about the story and the narrative, but rather the fight design. In FFVI you get to fight the statue, climbing towards the heavens as the music gets more and more ominous (just like in the Normal fight) until you reach the climax, with God Kefka descending from the skies and the chaotic final theme starting. The normal mode keeps the exactly same momentum, only to end without the climax and the bombastic theme that the fight is known for. Naturally this isn't much of an issue if the player never played FFVI. Exdeath in comparison was a lot more concise as a fight of it's own, but that might be a problem with Kefka itself as you mentioned.

[FeliAiko]

There is a clear difference in accessibility regarding savage and 24-man/normal trials and there are numbers to corroborate that.

Players choosing not to do the content does not mean the content itself is not accessible. An example of something that's not accessible would be housing when all plots have been bought up.

More often than not, the only thing preventing people from entering Savage is themselves, not the game. SE has progressively dumbed down the raids since Gordias/Midas - and as of SB, even the Jobs to some extent - yet it means nothing if certain players are not willing to challenge themselves but would rather stick to the low effort route that XIV also enables them to do.