Omega and future raid concerns

[Kaliesto]

Whatever, this is still straight up prejudice all around with the way things are going lately. Feel sorry for the players that can't ever reach that plateau nor I do expect them to do so, and not everyone is Adam Jensen from Deus Ex (silly example but it fits the bill).

Let's just call it for what it is instead beating around the bush about it, I hate it when parts of a MMO community is being intentionally dishonest.

[SinisterJoints]

Whatever, this is still straight up prejudice all around with the way things are going lately. Feel sorry for the players that can't ever reach that plateau nor I do expect them to do so, and not everyone is Adam Jensen from Deus Ex (silly example but it fits the bill).

Let's just call it for what it is instead beating around the bush about it.

That is the train of thought that creates this type of player "It's too hard so I'll just whine until I get what I want" WRONG -- You want something, go earn it. Not everyone gets a trophy here...

It's not prejudice, it's an MMO

The only ones being dishonest are the ones that are complaining that they cant experience the fight. You can experience it, you just dont want to work for it.

[HyoMinPark]

The people who do world firsts seem to devote HOURS into learning a fight to the point that it takes days, sometimes weeks to finish.

While they do devote a lot of hours, both Deltascape Savage and Sigmascape Savage were cleared in a little over 18 hours by world firsts. They did not take weeks to clear. That is only Ultimate—UCoB took 11 days, and UwU 6 days.

WHY would they lock raid fights behind something like this? Exdeath's 2nd form is Savage only, Kefka's 2nd Form is Savage only...some people will never get to experience that because they don't do that kind of content. And for the people who do, more power to you. I think it's awesome and watching Ultimate was great but there is no reason to do this when it wasn't done previously with Alexander or Bahamut.

The reasoning for story mode was because Coil WAS ARR’s version of Savage (Second Coil Savage was a prototype for Ultimate). The non-raiders got mad that they missed out on the story, so in HW, the developers made story-mode Alexander, and separated it from Savage. SB has the same deal.

And yes, Neo-Exdeath and God Kefka are exclusive to Savage, but the non-raiders get the bulk of the content released in this game catered and tuned to them. The raiders are allowed to have their special fights as well. Especially since both Deltascape and Sigmascape are easier than all previous raid tiers released before them to be made more accessible.

Just include the fights in Normal and have a Savage mode like before. Hopefully this isn't something SE plans on continuing with. I don't see why it's so difficult to make challenging content that isn't too demanding along the line of Shinryu or Nidhogg which I thought were great when they first came out.

See above. Savage has been made massively easier to be made more accessible to more people. Neo-Exdeath and God Kefka aren’t as hard as Alexander Prime was. Neo and God were given to the Savage raiders to give them something extra for doing the content designed for them.

If you want to experience the fights, then find the skill/time to do the content. It’s more than easy for people to find their clears and weeklies in PUGs via PF.

As for Shinryu and Nidhogg—people complained their normal modes were too hard and were begging to have their story modes nerfed. Even Castrum Fluminis has people crying for nerfs. I’d rather not have more fights watered down.

And I totally get that...But at the same time, this wasn't the case before since ARR and HW expansion. Why change it now to give Savage Raiders some kind of reward in the form of a fight and locking normal players out when they weren't doing that before?

Because the Savage raiders’ content was made easier for the normal players to find said content more accessible. Here’s the trade-off, in my eyes: “We made your content easier so that more people could do it, because players thought it was still too difficult. But now we have given Savage an extra fight in the final floor of the tier exclusive just to it.”

[Kaliesto]

That is the train of thought that creates this type of player "It's too hard so I'll just whine until I get what I want" WRONG -- You want something, go earn it. Not everyone gets a trophy here...

It's not prejudice, it's an MMO

The only ones being dishonest are the ones that are complaining that they cant experience the fight. You can experience it, you just dont want to work for it.

Oh believe me they try and try and try and try, but unfortunately human selfish nature on here ruins it for everyone else and that is why the completion rate for savage is so low which just adds to the skill problem.

Mind this pertains to the NA/EU community, I hear no problems of this in the JPN community.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Isn't that now filled by ultimate?

No, because Neo and God Kefka were designed to make Savage feel special for players who enjoy that level of difficult. Ultimate is a step beyond that; answering the demand for Midas and Gordias levels. Raiders from the midcore to hardcore level have two, two unique encounters—one of which means progressively easier as our ilvl increases. Is it really too much to ask we get to have stuff too when 99% of this game favors casual players?

[HyoMinPark]

Whatever, this is still straight up prejudice all around with the way things are going lately. Feel sorry for the players that can't ever reach that plateau nor I do expect them to do so, and not everyone is Adam Jensen from Deus Ex (silly example but it fits the bill).

Let's just call it for what it is instead beating around the bush about it, I hate it when parts of a MMO community is being intentionally dishonest.

It’s not prejudice to give the raiders a handful of fights designed for them when the vast majority of this content is designed for non-raiders.

Oh believe me they try and try and try and try, but unfortunately human selfish nature on here ruins it for everyone else and that is why the completion rate for savage is so low which just adds to the skill problem.

Mind this pertains to the NA/EU community, I hear no problems of this in the JPN community.

It’s straight-up selfish for non-raiders to demand that every piece of content be made for them when everything else in this game is made for them save for a handful of fights. I’m sorry, but the raiders deserve something as well. Don’t like it? Want to experience Neo or God Kefka? Jump into PF and become a Savage raider, then. We have all worked for it; you should, too.

[SinisterJoints]

Oh believe me they try and try and try and try, but unfortunately human selfish nature on here ruins it for everyone else and that is why the completion rate for savage is so low which just adds to the skill problem.

Mind this pertains to the NA/EU community, I hear no problems of this in the JPN community.

thats because the JP community doesn't mind helping people, and people who aren't as skilled actually attempt the fights.

It's quite the opposite here, NA/Eu doesn't like to help people because those people don't want to try and expect a full carry. It's not human selfish nature, it's called if you don't want to put in the effort, why should we. Not everyone can be a winner all the time, that is something EVERYONE needs to accept.

[Alaray]

As far as the "final form" stuff goes, I think that's fine to have in Savage itself as a bit of a reward for doing those fights for players who want more of a challenge -- it gives the team a bit more freedom with these forms to introduce mechanics that are considered at a Savage level of difficulty.

Now, Exdeath Normal was fun enough to me. You had a transition, it felt like a full fight you went through on the Normal mode end of things. Kefka, by contrast, felt like half a fight in Normal and I do think they should have added to the Normal version in some way (even just an arena change with some watered down mechanics from the clown-form).

But having things like Forsaken phases in Normal would just make it difficult for people not wanting something difficult/requires a lot of teamwork and communication to get through. Unless it was so watered down it was barely a mechanic to think about.

There are players who are happy with Normal and it challenges them, although for the other crowd Normal is basically a snooze fest (I find it more of a snooze fest, personally. It's not very exciting, or fun, to me when you can ignore most of the mechanics in a fight, or most mechanics are primarily punishing on healers and sometimes tanks, without much concern for putting the same thing in for DPS players. I did not do Savage last tier, but the boredom I felt with Normal became a reason why I went on to try out Savage). And there are likely players who go through Normal and feel bored with it, but don't have the confidence/time/desire to do something like Savage. So something in the middle I'd see as a good thing.

Do I think there should be another difficulty tier that allows for people who want the fight to feel engaging for them and fun, but not on the Savage-level? Yes, especially since it'd be really nice to have a place that acts as a learning ground for people interested in Savage itself (Since... the Normal versions are basically 100 percent different fights at this point in how they work, and doesn't really set you up on their own to challenge harder content of that tier).

But for players who lack the ability to join a static or whatnot, there's nothing wrong with taking a tier at your own pace. If you have 1hr a week you can devote to that type of content, you can still PF it and try to learn it as much as you can and work on clearing. While getting the gear and drops as frequently as possible is nice, I do think a lot of people see Savage and think people only do it for the drops (sure, some probably do), rather than the content itself.

Just because someone will say "O5S? Baby easy" doesn't mean it is, and there is a lot of "Oh yeah, God Kefka? Super easy" that goes around to bloat personal egos (and, again, people find different things difficult relative to their own ability/experience -- I find God Kefka difficult, especially with my color blind issues, and while I'm -- and my group, primarily filled with inexperienced raiders and XIV players -- finding it slow to kill, it's still a lot of fun to do the mechanics of the fight and to actually experience it, so the slowness doesn't bother me at all tbh).

(okay, granted, when you do anything 600 times -- hyperbole ok -- it'll always become easy. That's how experience works.)

( I do agree that the atmosphere is lacking, and that the overall story for the tier is definitely below BCoB, but anything will be below BCoB, and Alexander's story was... pretty bleh IMO)

[jameseoakes]

No, because Neo and God Kefka were designed to make Savage feel special for players who enjoy that level of difficult. Ultimate is a step beyond that; answering the demand for Midas and Gordias levels. Raiders from the midcore to hardcore level have two, two unique encounters—one of which means progressively easier as our ilvl increases. Is it really too much to ask we get to have stuff too when 99% of this game favors casual players?

To an extent I think it is, given that raiders can enjoy the rest of the content it is a asking a lot to expect the game to cater so much to them.

[HyoMinPark]

To an extent I think it is, given that raiders can enjoy the rest of the content it is a asking a lot to expect the game to cater so much to them.

1 fight during the final floor of a tier each tier is not asking for much. This isn’t counting Ultimate. If you want to count Ultimate, then fine: that’s a grand total of 2 fights in a span of 6 months. That’s not asking for “the game to cater so much to them”; not by a long shot.