Omega and future raid concerns

[Sebazy]

And I totally get that...But at the same time, this wasn't the case before since ARR and HW expansion.

<snip>

I can accept that fact that I will never have that gear but to completely lock out a portion of the a fight just seems dumb to me.

Whilst a lot of people have already corrected your point with regards to Coil in ARR, it's also worth noting that Midas in HW also had a final form and entire phase that was completely missing in normal mode (Winged Justice).

[Anarnee]

And I totally get that...But at the same time, this wasn't the case before since ARR and HW expansion. Why change it now to give Savage Raiders some kind of reward in the form of a fight and locking normal players out when they weren't doing that before? Savage raiders could have still gotten that fight and would have gotten a better reward/trophy in the form of a weapon or gear that normal players couldn't achieve. THAT was the real reward in my opinion. I can accept that fact that I will never have that gear but to completely lock out a portion of the a fight just seems dumb to me.

Did you not play ARR? Coil was all on a higher difficulty, plenty of people didn't ever get to experience that, so they made story mode in HW.

These watered down fights are specially made for you. Why do you even want to experience it at all if you don't want to do the fights as they should be, an actual challenge? You got your story mode, be happy for that.

Heh, I do find a lot of this funny, mostly because there is very little in-genre support for "savage only content," and virtually none outside of the genre. Within the genre, Blizzard has done phases of fights that is only available on their version of savage difficulty, and the complaints about that pile up. It's a lot of the same arguments: players, regardless of the difficulty that they tackle, are entitled to see the content. Which I agree, that they do. So you look at other genres. Say look at the RPG genre, which the MMORPG genre is based upon. So, so many games, when multiple difficulties are in place, just have stat modifiers for enemies. No exclusive fights and no special phases of fights if you're only on particular difficulty. What's so wrong with that? It gives everyone a chance to see the mechanics at a difficulty level that they find appropriate. It's partly why, I think, RPGs are still thriving: players of every walk and life can get the full experience appropriate for their skill level and time commitment.

And before the savage raiders jump down my throat, I used to raid in MMOs at the highest difficulty level. I also enjoy—in the games that I thoroughly enjoy—to play at the highest difficulty level. So I'm not some casual player who wants everything handed to him.

It's just: what exactly are you being deprived of if Neo Exdeath and God Kefka were available in normal? How would a number-reduced versions of these fights in normal affect you in any way, shape, or form?

As a former hardcore raider the answer is simple: it doesn't affect you. At all.

I as someone that doesn't raid much anymore don't want the dev time put into fiddling with a fight meant to be hard, making it easier. Leave the Savage stuff as it is and work on something else. We don't need that extra phase in the normal modes.

Only it factually is. Development is a zero-sum game, you can't have them developing this kind of thing without giving up on something. We already lost a dungeon every other patch for Ultimate and who knows what more, to stress the point.

Please stop blaming loosing a dungeon on Ultimate. We lost dungeons for Eureka. Ultimate reuses so many assets it doesn't take nearly as much as Eureka, and I'm getting so tried of seeing that thrown around.

[Eli85]

I as someone that doesn't raid much anymore don't want the dev time put into fiddling with a fight meant to be hard, making it easier. Leave the Savage stuff as it is and work on something else. We don't need that extra phase in the normal modes.

It would be a simple numbers pass. It would take minimal time to implement. Also don't speak for others. There are enough players in this thread making it known that the savage stuff in normal is very desirable.

[InkstainedGwyn]

It would be a simple numbers pass.

Most of the time, what is killing people with "hard" mechanics is not simply the amount of damage done/needed to be done to the boss. It's reaction times, multiple mechanics at once, memorizing what comes when (or not being able to bc of RNG), placement so you can navigate one mechanic into another mechanic or two-three at once. Just "lowering the numbers" would help approximately 0 people who can't do savage manage a normal version, as evidenced by people who go into unsync'd Alexander and still can't clear - ilvl is essentially "lowering the numbers". And they still can't.

[HyoMinPark]

It would be a simple numbers pass. It would take minimal time to implement. Also don't speak for others. There are enough players in this thread making it known that the savage stuff in normal is very desirable.

Okay, and then what happens if they made a "normal mode" Neo or God Kefka is, the day they come out, threads appear asking for them to be nerfed because even the watered-down versions of Grand Cross Omega and the Forsakens are "too hard" and "players shouldn't have to deal with hard mechanics like this". People were calling for Castrum Fluminis story mode to be nerfed, Royal Menagerie, Final Steps of Faith. It's more than a "simple number pass" because most players don't want to do difficult mechanics. The Grand Crosses and the Forsakens are what make Neo and God into great fights; otherwise they are just glorified striking dummies. Take those out, and there is no fight anymore.

My point still stands: if people want these fights, jump into PF and become a savage raider. Other people have done it. Why can't (general) you?

These comments are becoming slightly antagonizing toward players that are "not them", and getting really defensive every time someone points out a flaw about these recent savage raids. This is a waste of time, what people are asking isn't much and this is acting like we're trying to destroy their sacred cow when this is not the case.

Stop asking for things to just be handed to you.

Don't come blaming us if there is not enough players doing these X-Scape Raids when it reaches that point. Some of you can say excuses excuses excuses, but it sounds like every time we point a flaw you all make a excuse for it.

This won’t be an issue, so don’t worry.

[Anarnee]

It would be a simple numbers pass. It would take minimal time to implement. Also don't speak for others. There are enough players in this thread making it known that the savage stuff in normal is very desirable.

It's more than numbers. The normal fights omit and change mechanics. If you're as much of a raider as you say you are, you would know that it is not just changing numbers. Making the harder fights easy enough for someone that just can't coordinate or do mechanics is a lot more than that.

I am speaking for myself thank you, you said that it would not effect us, and I would like for you to not speak as if you know what you're talking about cause clearly you do not.

There are plenty against it too and our opinions deserve to be heard too.

[Remyogic]

It would be a simple numbers pass. It would take minimal time to implement. Also don't speak for others. There are enough players in this thread making it known that the savage stuff in normal is very desirable.

Except that it isn't a simple numbers pass. The difficulty in Savage isn't the numbers (The World first for Ultimate had DPS at slightly above 5K); it' the mechanics. Introducing the extra phase (where the "Savage" level mechanics are mostly present) in a Normal mode would mean re-working the entire phase, hence making it nothing more than the same boss with a new skin. They tried this with a couple of Primals, namely Shinryu, where the Normal mode phases were fairly similiar to the Extreme mode phases, but with lower number requirements.............and all hell broke loose with casuals crying for nerfs to Normal cause they couldn't handle the mechanics. So, what's the point? SE is just pre-empting the casual playerbase by releasing the fight already nerfed to the core for Normal mode.

[Adelaide3]

The only reason there's an easy mode for the 8 player raids is so people just like you can experience the storyline that's attached to it.

I just can't understand not wanting to challenge yourself with harder difficulty content when it's right there for you. How is it possible to play this game without taking part in the extremely limited endgame content ffxiv actually has? Do people seriously only log in to duty finder easy mode content for months on end?

[Renato]

The only reason there's an easy mode for the 8 player raids is so people just like you can experience the storyline that's attached to it.

I just can't understand not wanting to challenge yourself with harder difficulty content when it's right there for you. How is it possible to play this game without taking part in the extremely limited endgame content ffxiv actually has? Do people seriously only log in to duty finder easy mode content for months on end?

That's an unfair comment to make as what is easy is very subjective. There is some content that I find very difficult that others do not.

But to answer your question, maybe they do. I personally log into the game because it's kind of a relaxing time-waster for me. I like decorating my house. I enjoy helping my FC mates level. I enjoy the world of Eorzea and the story behind it and it's characters so the more hectic endgame (savage) content has never been a priority for me. Everyone plays the game for different reasons.

The point I'm trying to make is content directly involved with a story shouldn't be locked behind a harder difficulty when it wasn't before.

[Enla]

The point I'm trying to make is content directly involved with a story shouldn't be locked behind a harder difficulty when it wasn't before.

Except from what I can tell, all you're missing is a second phase fight and gear by not doing Savage? You're not locked out of /any/ story in SB's current Savage Raiding scene.