So about Summoner...

[Wayfinder3]

SMN's dependency on raid buffs isn't as extreme as you're making it out to be, the jobs damage is static enough that a "flat" bahamut only really happens if the user mismanages wyrm waves and even thats not going to hinder the job in the same way that BRD and MCH are dependent on burst windows. Progression also rarely requires perfect raid synergy and for your bahamuts phases to line up under every possible raid buff, because if this were true; BLM and SAM would be unplayable in SAVAGE/ULTIMATE level content however both jobs have cleared UCOB just fine.

Perfect/Great raid Synergy makes things easier for sure, in the same vain as utility does which is the reason why SMN seems so oppressive in nature. SMN might actually be better than RDM and here's why
SMN has 6 of the 10 clears of UWU including world 1st
RDM has 4 of the 10 including world 2nd

SMN has more dps, a combat rez, more mobility and all of the same utilities given by the cross role. Radiant Shield and Devotion and the best mp control of the 2
in comparison
RDM only has a impractical Cure and a more frequent Combat rez but no mp to sustain it. all of the same utilities given by the cross role as well as Embolden

SMN is doing alot here, i understand it's supposed to be middle of the road, but it's eclipsing BLM in farm because of it's utility, and it's even starting to eclipse rdm in prog.

[Neela]

absolutly true no doubt about your words. progression doesn't require synergy of raid buffs and full maxed out Bahamuts never said that -> but it also the reason why smns dps fall real flat in progression and that was the point which was in question ^^ smn is not more prog friendly than other jobs tho, maybe more mobile but not more flexible or effective than the others. Like Meg stated in detail. Tho it's not only the death and loss of stacks which makes him fall flat but also the unknown windows for max burst. not more not less : o

edit: just to be clear smn surely is in a better condition for prog than blm - questioning that is inexcaptable sure. but that has nothing to do with their dmg-output.

[Wayfinder3]

SMN dps does not fall flat at all, In 5 out of the 6 clear uploads for smn. it is top dps, the only time it wasn't; it was 2nd behind a mnk. SMN is punished the most by death sure, but death is to be expected in prog and thus it's a moot point. if the SMN doesn't die it's carrying the team. BLM doesn't have the utility and requires more team investment to make the job work, while rdm has the utility but lacks the damage needed to help the group push enrages where runs may go bad.

https://www.fflogs.com/rankings/23

See for yourself, the job is stupid good in all places, it eclipses both the other casters in the departments they're designed to thrive in

[Zerathor]

*inaudible screeching

Smn can raise slave a group to see enrage and manage the dps after the group has seen this and learned to not die as much on the next pulls. Also while having the mobility to more easily do new mechanics without much of any penalty. There's nothing incorrect about this.

[Neela]

snip

yeah yeah but wait ^^

I'm talking about learning a fight though not clears where you actually already know mechanics at least a bit. that are two different things. clear = you got the mechanics already right and have already adjusted your rotation and your grp syngery. just to be clear on that. not gonna try to fight in a misunderstanding okay? ^^

[Wayfinder3]

SMN is just fine learing mecahnics too, it's high mobility is the reason why. Have you actually watched any of the UWU prog streams Happy, Xeno, EDH. all used smn the whole way and were just fine

Ruin 2 allows you to move and see more mechanics, who cares about 20 potency when you're trying to learn. SMN has only 1 flaw and thats if it dies, the other 2 have a bunch of other genuine issues

[Neela]

...*swt*... absolute nobody denies that as well gosh.. please read the whole discussion not just the last post... it was said that smn is prog-unfriendly in matter of his dmg cause bahamut blub. It was also said its the most mobile one, nobody denies that as well. but the reason for taking them for prog is not their personal-dps in the first way. that are different things. there is no doubt that smn is the way better choice over blm or even rdm if u like. but thats also not the topic right now q.q

[Wayfinder3]

I mean the only reason you take SMN over RDM is the DAMAGE and those are the best 2 choices for prog casters. if you have a point/topic, please make it
the original post was about SMN being too good and im giving reason as to why that is a VALID point when compared to the alternative caster choices

[Neela]

so u gonna tell the reason why you take smn over rdm because smns personal dmg is higher than rdms personal dmg and not because smn brings the way better grp-buffs with devotion, radiant and con while being more mobile at the same time? I don't think so...

uhm about the topic point - if we would take that for a rule, this thread could have been closed after the 2nd page - cause everything what follows after that is just "mimimi look this fflogs number!" "baaah idiot YOU gonna take a look at THESE fflogs numbers!" "mimimi the world is so unfair" all arguments turn cycles all opinions are harded like always. not the best recom tho : /

[Zerathor]

snip

100% for the damage.
Rdm for maximum raise slave brute force seeing mechanics.
Smn to push through enrage, while still being able to raise.