So about Summoner...

[Zerathor]

snip

It's comes down to how you personally think things should be ballanced:

-ballanced around what average/below average players can do

Or

-ballance around the potential of what the job is capable of

I think it should be more for what it's capable of. Players can learn and improve to reach that potential, but a job that's prematurely capped off will never grow further without patch changes. This game is actually doing a fairly good job of trying for it too imo, so I believe that's what they want.

[Megguido]

I mean, yes it feels unfair. People want to do content with the job they love, and said job isn't necessarily the most catered for savage for example. Like RDM being like 500 DPS behind SMN just because it can spam raise.

Imo, I prefer having a job that is not "meta" and have fun with it rather than playing something I have less fun with. Savage raids can be cleared with any team composition, having a meta comp doesn't mean having more success. Our team had a WHM, DRK, RDM, SAM and MNK, so very little raid buffs, and cleared all Sigma savage just fine.

I am a bit in the same situation as you are Dualgunner, but on tank side. Why would I play DRK when I can be 250 DPS higher with WAR ? Though this difference is insignificant for like 99.9% of the content. And frankly, 250 more DPS on DRK would be nice, but it wouldn't change a damn thing overall (yay the boss would die 0.5s earlier).

[Neela]

Imo, I prefer having a job that is not "meta" and have fun with it rather than playing something I have less fun with. Savage raids can be cleared with any team composition, having a meta comp doesn't mean having more success. Our team had a WHM, DRK, RDM, SAM and MNK, so very little raid buffs, and cleared all Sigma savage just fine.

thats how our static plays as well - last savage tier we run 2x smn 2x drk and it was unproblematic. we are just casual/mid lvl but if people play what they like and have fun with, all that meta bullshit flies away. some people should just step back from this meta blah... as long as all cls actually "can" clear savage its not a real "balance-problem" its more a personal problem of people seeing their main cls in a worser spot than others. (and don't start bs like "said a smn" pls)

My answer to that Neela is it should be balanced on high end content, because people playing at that end are the only ones who are going to run into issues like this. Zera said it beautifully earlier: every player can get better to get more out of their job, but system enforced caps can only be changed by the system.

well I'm not with u at this point... f.e. why should pve player take the loss of raise or a weaker heal on rdm just because raider want them more viable for there reasons... - see the problem with thinking like that? every cls-adjustments for raiding will effect pve as well. sad that elite-raiders seem to forget that from time to time... q.q

we discussed that matter more than once in discord... actually if u want balance in savage, the cls' need a savage-profil just like the pvp-profils - less skills more balance... easier to adjust single skills faster with hot fixes... but well more streamline and more boredom as well...

its the only way to separate savage from casual content in matter of balance : /

Else there will always be top tier cls and "haha what do YOU want here" cls... no matter how hard they try balancing in general.

[TelosNox]

It's comes down to how you personally think things should be ballanced:

-ballanced around what average/below average players can do

Or

-ballance around the potential of what the job is capable of

Balance around what good/better players usually can do. For me 75th percentile is a good benchmark for balancing. It reflects what good players are able to do without being pushed, without having best in slot gear, without having the best luck with random mechanics without having (their) best group composition.
I would not balance for average (50th percentile) because this contains too many players that don't play the class right or fail too much at mechanics.

I think that's the reason why fflogs shows 75th percentile by default for statistics because it reflects what the class usually is able to achieve.