Been running Ridorana Lighthouse the whole week and...

[Penthea]

The point I have been trying to make is both systems are flawed

Sorry but I don't really believe this so much. I don't think anyone said the need system was perfect, they said that it worked well. Not the same thing. All the arguments presented to you in favour of need are because greed only is bloody terrible for many reasons. Not because need is perfect. You have been trying to convince us of a point we already know.

My main issue is I do not think a system should inherently favor one over another

Yet you suggest a token system even though people roll on those. Winning those is 100% luck based. I know several people, myself included, who have had to spam bosses in Omega for hours because of unlucky streaks with rolls. That system favours the lucky, and you got nothing like role restrictions to get better odds.

The only way to have a system that doesn't favour anyone is to literally have nothing to roll on - whatever the reward is, it goes straight into your inventory or currency tab. Maybe that is what you meant but I don't really envision SE giving a guaranteed third currency for completing the instance as it seems a bit excessive, but that's a whole other conversation.

[Seddrinth]

I really like the greed option. I can go in playing the job I'm most comfortable playing and still get an equal chance to loot for gear for alt jobs. As for people who are upset because they have trouble gearing... there are so many options for gearing in this game. You can upgrade crafting gear and weapon to 360 just by using creation tombstone or you can just buy mendacity gear which is also 360, and can be upgraded to 370 with Lighthouse/Rabanastre. You can get a full set of 350 gear on Sigmascape normal with no weekly loot lockouts now. You can go to Eureka and get 355 weapon and 350 gear. The 24 man is not the only place you can get gear. I'm new to this game so if I know this, no excuse for you veterans to not know this.

[Penthea]

You can get a full set of 350 gear on Sigmascape normal with no weekly loot lockouts now. You can go to Eureka and get 355 weapon and 350 gear. The 24 man is not the only place you can get gear. I'm new to this game so if I know this, no excuse for you veterans to not know this.

Well then as a "veteran" I feel I need to inform you that not all the crafted, tomestone, Eureka or Omega gear is universally equally good for every class. Some classes suffer greatly if their gear doesn't have a lot of weight in certain stats. Never mind how incredibly expensive crafted gear can be so they're often just not an option for a new player. For a lot of people the 24 man loot is a legitimate upgrade, even if they raid. And just because something is higher ilvl doesn't always automatically mean it's better gear. Combat stats are more complex than that.

[BillyKaplan]

Yet you suggest a token system even though people roll on those.

That's why I want an Extreme-esque token system. Or rather, totem system.

I can go in playing the job I'm most comfortable playing and still get an equal chance to loot for gear for alt jobs.

If you don't feel comfortable running on them, why do you need such high level gear? And why can't you utilize the methods you mentioned yourself?

You can upgrade crafting gear and weapon to 360 just by using creation tombstone

Not everyone have the crafters/gatherers or gil. People can complain about needing more gil sinks until the cows come home, not everyone is a gillionaire, especially the players who actually rely on content like this to gear up.

or you can just buy mendacity gear which is also 360

It takes between a week to two to get a single piece of mendacity gear. While they get the one item from this, they can get another piece of gear from the raid, even if they'll replace it asap. Double weekly upgrade you're telling them to pass up on.

Sigma... Eureka

Time restrictions. Eureka is a massive time-sink, and Sigma can be too if you get unlucky with the rolls. Especially seeing how you need duplicate tokens for most gear pieces. Oh and the raid is an upgrade compared to both, so there goes that.

Every system has issues that can easily keep someone from gearing through it. 24-player raids used to help people to get around it, but now with the Greed-Only that's out the window.

[Awha]

Sorry but I don't really believe this so much. I don't think anyone said the need system was perfect, they said that it worked well. Not the same thing. All the arguments presented to you in favour of need are because greed only is bloody terrible for many reasons. Not because need is perfect. You have been trying to convince us of a point we already know.



Yet you suggest a token system even though people roll on those. Winning those is 100% luck based. I know several people, myself included, who have had to spam bosses in Omega for hours because of unlucky streaks with rolls. That system favours the lucky, and you got nothing like role restrictions to get better odds.

The only way to have a system that doesn't favour anyone is to literally have nothing to roll on - whatever the reward is, it goes straight into your inventory or currency tab. Maybe that is what you meant but I don't really envision SE giving a guaranteed third currency for completing the instance as it seems a bit excessive, but that's a whole other conversation.

Never said need was perfect, I have acknowledged that people prefer need since they feel it is the fairer system, and I said the same could be said for greed all. I was trying to say is that for me it seems silly to make the request to move back from one flawed system to another. This is why I brought up I wish I was able to convey what I was saying better since my intent was never to convince people that one system is inherently better, I was trying to show that the system that someone will prefer will depend on what they want from the content or how they wish to run it. Since I was confused about how can we choose which set of factors to favor. Though I as mentioned in my last post my friends exampled to me the intent of 24's and why they need to priority those that need the gear since the content primary intent was meant for players to catch up, which would also means tokens would not work since the only way to meet the needs of those that are going in for upgrades is to put them above everyone else at first. While I do not agree with the concept, but it makes sense. Just as when the mentioned the greed all thing, I personally liked it more so then need/greed/pass but I did acknowledge that overall it is not a great change. I would be all for removing RNG and give everyone who took part a token to that took part in the kill, though I do understand that would make the content / gear meaningless for many at that point. I have also acknowledged that I do not know if a token system would solve the issues, it was just an idea. End goal as I mentioned is that instead of asking for SE to switch from one flawed system back to another maybe it time they looked into reworking the loot system that happens to better meet the "needs" of each type of player that runs the content.

[BillyKaplan]

End goal as I mentioned is that instead of asking for SE to switch from one flawed system back to another maybe it time they looked into reworking the loot system that happens to better meet the "needs" of each type of player that runs the content.

The old system met the "needs" of players before. If you needed gear for a job you proved it by bringing it to the run. Simple as that.
Now, if - and that's a huge if - if they rework the system, it won't happen any time soon. What they're likely to do is revert to the Need system to pacify the angry mob, and then hope we forget about it.

[Alleo]

Make a party with friends.

Problem solved.

That could have been done before if you wanted gear with the old system. And on top of that it did not mess up peoples chances on rolls.

I really like the greed option. I can go in playing the job I'm most comfortable playing and still get an equal chance to loot for gear for alt jobs. As for people who are upset because they have trouble gearing... there are so many options for gearing in this game. You can upgrade crafting gear and weapon to 360 just by using creation tombstone or you can just buy mendacity gear which is also 360, and can be upgraded to 370 with Lighthouse/Rabanastre. You can get a full set of 350 gear on Sigmascape normal with no weekly loot lockouts now. You can go to Eureka and get 355 weapon and 350 gear. The 24 man is not the only place you can get gear. I'm new to this game so if I know this, no excuse for you veterans to not know this.

Then why not gear up your job that you are seemingly not even comfortable in 24 man raids through other means? I mean if you dont want to run them there you will probably not feel comfortable in ex/savage runs either, so gearing them through dungeons should be enough right? And if you dont want to run them with that job too why need an upgrade at all?

You also had the chance to get gear for other jobs and still play the one you like before with need. You just needed to be lucky that the jobs that could need on it did not roll on it. At least that old system did not hurt those that needed to gear their main job while still giving the rest a chance to get other gear..

[Penthea]

That could have been done before if you wanted gear with the old system. And on top of that it did not mess up peoples chances on rolls.

I really hate the "make a party with friends if you want to get loot" argument. Because yea, f**k you if you're a new player, are new to the server, a returning player, have friends that don't always play at the same time or have the misfortune of being unable to find a community you fit in with.

The fact that you need a premade group for Duty Finder content so that the chances on getting loot become realistic just shows how badly broken the greed only system is.

[Awha]

The old system met the "needs" of players before. If you needed gear for a job you proved it by bringing it to the run. Simple as that.
Now, if - and that's a huge if - if they rework the system, it won't happen any time soon. What they're likely to do is revert to the Need system to pacify the angry mob, and then hope we forget about it.

I know, fairly early on in this thread I did say it is more likely they will be going back to the old system, and the only reason this topic even came about was simply because SE made the chance in the first place since overall while I have always had my issues with need/greed/pass I went along with it because it really was a first world problem, being as SE did make the change it is hard for me to understand why people feel the better solution is to go back to the system that they ended up switching from in the first place. I was always of the mindset that greed all was a lazy solution to a problem not many voiced since it was a first world issue, (never outright called it a first world issue in this thread, figured it was implied) but since a change was made I figured it would a good time to voice ones feelings on the matter. Though the old system really did not met the "needs" ( do not like using the word need, but you know what I mean right? Peoples wants and stuff ) of the every player before, but it really was not met to, while I do not agree with that concept, it is what it is. I do not recall which post I said this in, if a rework cannot happen then yeah the best solution is to go back to the told system, since greed all has a greater potential of screwing certain players over.

Either way my issue came from the fact that I viewed 24's as a means of gearing up (since I do not buy into the whole ones need is greater the another thing) which even now I do not understand that mindset, but that more so goes into how I think about things and lack of understanding in basic social situations. As it was explained to me by my friends it is not just about gearing, but more so gearing those that happen to be fair behind the current ilvl, and the only way to go about that is to give those players priority and as you mentioned before the only objective measure SE could go with is role, and give priority to those that can wear it. In that way it makes sense.

[Seddrinth]

If you don't feel comfortable running on them, why do you need such high level gear? And why can't you utilize the methods you mentioned yourself?

Reading comprehension. I never said I'm not comfortable playing alt jobs. I've raided savage on alt jobs. But I do feel more comfortable with my main job. I don't need any level gear- it's just a game and I just gear up for fun. No crying if I don't get gear. And yes I have used a combination of crafted gear, sigmascape normal, and mendacity gear to gear my alt jobs. Any more questions?