DPS Stance vs Tank Stance Including Healer DPS

[Tex_Mex]

Seems like the only tank that's really hurt by that kind of "tank stance" change is Warrior (intentional? lol). Being stuck in Defiance means we probably won't get to use Inner Release for damage, however PLD/DRK still get all their DPS abilities (some of which are even augmented by tank stance). Yea there's a possibility of swapping to deliverance for IR windows but that would depend a bit on mechanics happening in a given fight. (ie is it a phase where we can drop defense and/or tank swap)

Note that DRK actually gets hurt pretty badly by this too because their best damage cooldown (Blood Weapon) cannot be used while in Grit stance.

[whiskeybravo]

Note that DRK actually gets hurt pretty badly by this too because their best damage cooldown (Blood Weapon) cannot be used while in Grit stance.

Thanks for pointing that out, I forgot entirely BP and BW are locked behind grit. It is a pretty significant damage buff for DRK.

Make tanking absurdly difficult in absurdly difficult content is...logical.

Difficulty is subjective, though. And the thing about tanking is, the harder you make it on the tank the harder it will be on the healers because we are intrinsically tied together for survival. The take no damage/deal no damage style is not really all that fun. I know from prog runs in Defiance, it's boring as hell and there's certainly nothing challenging about it, and plenty of others have expounded on that experience from other MMOs too. Having to switch to tank stance because damage intake is too high without it is not difficult, much less absurdly difficult, especially for the tank. Press button = live.

Short of a complete combat system rework that would introduce more elements like you've described, what we have now works fine. There's no real reason to change it, just various opinions from people on how they would find it more engaging. My own subjective opinion is that it's much more thrilling to know I'm practically on the brink of death when playing out of tank stance; one miss timed heal, one crit auto away from certain death. That's "savage" content. IMO Healers don't do as much damage because they're not damage dealing classes, they're healers. Pretty plain and simple. Tanks have nearly 100% uptime on enemies, multiple melee combos and cooldowns for damage, tools to deal with threat and incoming damage - what exactly is so wrong with tanks being a qausi-damage dealing class? We are already right here in the enemies face. FITE ME BRO

[Reynhart]

The take no damage/deal no damage style is not really all that fun.

The core of the problem. Not all tank think that way.
Having the strategic options to go full tank stance and let healers have far more room to DPS, or going full DPS stance while healer are more focused on keeping us alive would please both types of tank and healer players, instead of forcing everyone into a single meta.

I'm practically on the brink of death when playing out of tank stance; one miss timed heal, one crit auto away from certain death

Problem is, that situation is mostly on the healer's shoulders, not yours. So you're thrilled at putting pressure on someone else.

[whiskeybravo]

So you're thrilled at putting pressure on someone else.

No, I'm thrilled at living "dangerously", not by putting unnecessary pressure on my healers against their will.. Which is what your phrase sounds like. If I die I don't automatically blame them (unless it's a situation where I simply didn't get heals) - I look at my kit and see if there is something I can do different to help them while still maintaining my own damage.

And, there's been plenty of times where I have sucked it up and went to defiance because healers were struggling. So it's not like I'm entirely against tank stance or something. Strategic options, as you say. But I'm not going to act like it was the best thing ever. It sucks, especially for War because the main damage dealing aspect of the class is shoved away in a dark corner, and you sit there popping inner beast like the One True Tank God.

[Capn_Goggles]

So you're thrilled at putting pressure on someone else.

I play scholar, a healer that is not particularly great in dungeons, and I've never had a problem with fat pulls provided the tank isn't undergeared or they're making blatantly dumb pulls; my DPS rotation consists of putting two DoTs up, casting bane, and then refreshing Miasma II, it's really not hard to juggle that stuff. Frankly, and I mean no offense to players that aren't very skilled, but if you are having trouble healing through that then that sits squarely on your shoulders.