Red Mages need some love

[Malkria]

LOL.

I’m sorry, I neither know nor care who you are, nor do I care about your attention. You can tell yourself whatever you need to in order to sleep at night, but I could not care less. I do care about people who come into arguments trying to pass off anecdotes as facts, though.

And I do thank you for my evening laugh.

You have no answers for the questions posed to you, and you're hurting since the real world disagrees with your echo chamber. Sorry, that's life. You're wrong regarding your posts, your evidence is lackluster at best, and you're resorting to ad hominem. Log back in, unequip the Black Mage stone and play something you want to play instead of whining about playstyles your echo chamber doesn't like.

So says the two people taking a single paragraph and chopping it up line by line. If that isn't a desperate cry for attention, then it's a pathetic way to conduct a debate. Like I said, I have better things to do then continue on with you two, because when you do stupid stuff like that? I don't even bother reading it, it's just a very obvious que that my time is better spent elsewhere from two people who can't formulate a response to a single paragraph. That chances are whatever you did say probably wasn't worth the effort to read.

So cheers, reply to this (I know you will) but I won't know about it, and have fun with the last word mates! ^.^

[Dualgunner]

snip

A pathetic way to conduct a debate by responding point-by-point to somebody? Okay sure, I guess in your world where 3 year old <3000 response polls beat out data collected over a whole tier and 50 anecdotes constitutes good evidence, I can see that. But since you have such an issue, I snipped your response.

Continue to enjoy thinking you're the better man by trying to back out of this debate, despite the fact that everyone reading can see quite clearly you're only quitting because you have no real answers to the queries and critiques of your positions we've given you. Go spend your time better elsewhere, champ.

[HyoMinPark]

So says the two people taking a single paragraph and chopping it up line by line. If that isn't a desperate cry for attention, then it's a pathetic way to conduct a debate. Like I said, I have better things to do then continue on with you two, because when you do stupid stuff like that? I don't even bother reading it, it's just a very obvious cue* that my time is better spent elsewhere from two people who can't formulate a response to a single paragraph. That chances are whatever you did say probably wasn't worth the effort to read.

That’s how I normally respond to posts? I’m sorry that my post style doesn’t cater to what you would prefer. It’s so people can easily follow my replies to multiple points in their post, rather than have it all lumped into one wall of text. That doesn’t immediately invalidate responses, nor is it some supposed cry for some rando online’s attention. I’m sorry to say.

Actually, a lot of forum posters respond in this fashion, so I suppose you’ll be in for a lot of ignoring in future debates. Probably for the best though. Especially since you prefer to respond to debates with outdated polls, anecdotal evidence, ad hominem, and responses such as these:

That chances are whatever you did say probably wasn't worth the effort to read.

I mean when people start chopping up your post into line by line responses you know they are just getting desperate for attention from you. I guess that means those two 'win' the argument, but hey I like letting people feel good about themselves once in awhile. These two probably needed a win of some sort in their lives somehow.

Instead of, you know, responding to the debate at hand.

[Popotato]

Also backed up by at least 50 people from my FC.

Ask your FC why they think it’s bad. There is a case to be made that BLM is weak right now, and it’s not the reasons you gave.

I also don’t understand what this guy has against people giving cohesion to the mess he wrote in his paragraph. He said the same thing to me on another thread, the difference being the way I divided the quotes was literally paragraph by paragraph. He broke it up himself. If anything, breaking his post up makes his arguments look better than they actually are since they’re actually clearer.

Anyways, I feel like we owe RDM players some actual discussion of their job after derailing so hard. RDM feedback inc.

This might’ve been touched upon before, but one of the main problems with RDM is the lack of predetermined burst phases. A RDM burst phase, the melee combo + Verfinisher, has such a variable timeframe that it feels like it never aligns with raid cooldowns, which is the core of endgame speed runs.

I think giving RDM some reliability in when it can execute its burst will give a good boost to its power and desirability. What I’m thinking is that instead of Manafication doubling current mana, it’s gives a flat 60/60 boost to current mana, with the same cooldown as now. That way, RDM burst is practically guaranteed every two minutes, and this will align with things like Trick Attack and Hypercharge. I feel like this also has the least impact on the opener, and if anything might make it so the and Embolden actually aligns with other raid buffs in the opener. While we’re at it, Embolden is a bit shit as a buff right now. For a non-selfish caster, RDM needs Embolden to have some desirability in a party. I think have a less frequent decay rate is probably the best solution.

[HyoMinPark]

Anyways, I feel like we owe RDM players some actual discussion of their job. . . .I played primarily RDM at the start of Stormblood until just before 4.2. The main thing that made me drop

I play RDM semi-frequently; I’ve flexed it in Savage before for groups, but usually not in a very serious context. I think it really could use some potency buffs. I know SE wants to keep its damage down because of the raise utility... but that utility goes away once a group finishes progging a fight, and once the fight is on farm. Buffing Embolden could also help; and maybe changing the way the buff’s decay works. Right now, it’s only worth it to line up important buffs, or to snapshot important buffs (BRD main, here), during Embolden-5. Embolden-2 and Embolden-1 are incredibly weak. I honestly think it would be better, if they wanted to keep the decay design, to just do Embolden-3, Embolden-2, and Embolden-1, and adjust potencies on those three.

[Popotato]

I play RDM semi-frequently; I’ve flexed it in Savage before for groups, but usually not in a very serious context. I think it really could use some potency buffs. I know SE wants to keep its damage down because of the raise utility... but that utility goes away once a group finishes progging a fight, and once the fight is on farm. Buffing Embolden could also help; and maybe changing the way the buff’s decay works. Right now, it’s only worth it to line up important buffs, or to snapshot important buffs (BRD main, here), during Embolden-5. Embolden-2 and Embolden-1 are incredibly weak. I honestly think it would be better, if they wanted to keep the decay design, to just do Embolden-3, Embolden-2, and Embolden-1, and adjust potencies on those three.

Actually, the talk about snapshotting makes me think that maybe instead of a decay or even a potency, changing the effect to a ramp up would give it a good buff to its utility. That way, other jobs will want to snapshot during that brief 20% buff. This would also have little implication on the RDM itself, and could even be a light form of skill expression to align the verfinisher right has Embolden hits 20%

I don’t play much RDM anymore though so if there’s any obvious negative I’m missing let me know.

[Dualgunner]

Ask your FC why they think it’s bad. There is a case to be made that BLM is weak right now, and it’s not the reasons you gave.

I should amend that I'm in no way saying Black Mage is perfect, and my position is the same as Popotato's; the imperfections being pointed out aren't the real problem.

I also don’t understand what this guy has against people giving cohesion to the mess he wrote in his paragraph. He said the same thing to me on another thread, the difference being the way I divided the quotes was literally paragraph by paragraph. He broke it up himself. If anything, breaking his post up makes his arguments look better than they actually are since they’re actually clearer.

I break things up for a lot of reasons; it helps me compartmentalize what I'm responding to so I can make more sense with my own posts, and it makes it easier to digest for readers. I'm not really sure his issue with this either :/

Anyways, I feel like we owe RDM players some actual discussion of their job after derailing so hard. RDM feedback inc.

Happens more often than you think lol. Every caster discussion inevitably has the other two come in and screech for a bit.

This might’ve been touched upon before, but one of the main problems with RDM is the lack of predetermined burst phases. A RDM burst phase, the melee combo + Verfinisher, has such a variable timeframe that it feels like it never aligns with raid cooldowns, which is the core of endgame speed runs.

Complete agreement here; a big problem with its damage is that it can't reliably hit its stride every 2 minutes. Actually, it can't even take advantage of even the initial opening burst; it can save embolden for a 5/6th GCD lineup with trick (amusingly, at cost to its own personal dps as well), but it won't be another two to three GCDs before it can even start Riposte. I'm lucky and sometimes manage to get a Zwerchhau under trick.

Make Manafy +60/60 instead of double

This is a creative solution to the issue. Even for the opener, by 5/6th GCD I'm usually at ~31/31 procs pending, so an instant boost of 60+ for each would allow me to jump right in with my burst on Trick and get to use my embo to boost the raid and keep the selfish benefits of it. It would also make double verfinishers a lot easier to pull off, as if you went from 100/99 you'd end at 20/19 and then jump straight up to 80/79, where you'd only need 1 (but you'll take 2) GCDs to get right back into it; this means the stronger end of your combo would also be encapsulated in your second verfinisher.

While we’re at it, Embolden is a bit shit as a buff right now. For a non-selfish caster, RDM needs Embolden to have some desirability in a party. I think have a less frequent decay rate is probably the best solution.

There are a few ways to deal with embolden. I wouldn't necessarily like it as a ramp-up buff, because that would complicate timing your melee with it a bit. I'd prefer it to be like overcharge, a flat 6% damage buff for 20 seconds (about its average damage buff now). Whatever is done with it it needs to increase damage in general, not "physical for you, magical for me." That's dumb imo.

[EllieShadeflare]

Honestly, I feel that the Dualcast effect could be changed in a similar way to how Lightspeed gives "instant" casts, by making the next spell have something like -5s to their cast time. Heck, the way Verraise works versus other Raise spells seems to support this idea, since Resurrection, Raise, and Ascend have 8s versus the base 10s of Verraise... and doing this change would make Verraise raise as quickly as Lightspeed'd Ascend, while not affecting the internal balance of Red Mage's rotation.

After the psuedo-nerf to Verraise, we can then focus on either boosting the potency of Embolden or boosting the potency of their spells/melee combo. Maybe even replace Tether with an actual buff. I'unno.

[Remedi]

Mh good call actually, that does idd feels interesting

[Maero]

You see more Red Mages because blm are the ones raiding.
There is literally nothing Red Mage brings to a raid if you are to choose between it or smn and blm