Red Mages need some love

[EllieShadeflare]

It's because FFXIV is an over-simplified MMO. No customization whatsoever. So if you don't like your RDM out of the box, too bad because all RDM's are the same....

Unfortunately for your mindset, we're in a different era of MMOs than the age of user-hostile, complex for the sake of complexity time sinks that massively enforced an attitude of git gud vs have fun.

Even in FFXI and early WoW, customization was heavily scrutinized and treated as a science, to the point that players created metas on the absolute most "efficient" builds as possible without thinking about the way it'd be treated by other players. Or rather, how jerks would try to limit other players based on the meta.

And yeah, I've constantly been the person who's had to say that Raises are absolutely useless outside of progression and 4-mans because they are. You can't complete a fight if you raise too often due to rez weakness, lost threat or lost healing. To balance Red Mage around a situational at best, actually harmful at worst utility is one of the most bone-headed moves the dev team has done. So Dualgunner's posts highly resonate with me because someone else finally sees the real issue with this.

Red Mage does not have the DPS contribution to justify having the lowest DPS of any DPS in the game. Perhaps if Embolden had a smaller cooldown and had a 20% initial damage boost, things'd be different, but as it stands, we are arbitrarily weaker than anyone else without having the ability to make up. And since DPS is king in FFXIV, balancing our DPS contribution or our actual damage around Verraise is 100% counter intuitive.

[Dualgunner]

If vercure would be ogcd heal with small cooldown, RDM could support healers without dps loss like ninja can support tanks with extra enmity generation. I think that would be pretty cool idea?

The issue there is, RDM would then lose a valuable tool for proccing Dualcast in transition phases.

EDIT: Since I didn't get to this earlier:

i don't think people care the number of utility-skills but the flexibility/mobility/insta advantage of an int based heal

You realize Vercure is about the same as a WHM's actual Cure 1. Now tell me how many WHM actually see Cure 1 as a viable endgame healing spell to fall back on.

and if needed a 4-5x instant res in a row.

By 5x, it's no longer valuable, it's a wipe. By 3x, you get just as much taking a SMN (who outclasses RDM hard on damage), because you'd have 3 instant cast raises / minute. So 4 deaths per minute is the optimal "RDM is helpful here!" version; aside from, perhaps, "Both healers just died!" and while it's possible to recover at that point...there's really no point, wiping it up would be smarter there as well.

since rdm is still the only cls which owns the necromancer title its more than good to go in balancing...

Okay I'll bite. Yes, RDM players are the sole people with Necromancer as a title. Of everybody who's managed to get it, they're all RDM.

All...two of them, as of this post.

Is there any reason another job *couldn't* try it? It's not like either of these two players breezed through PotD. They put a lot of hard work and effort into it that I'm sure another job could do as well if people put enough effort into it.

its the only cls who acquired this title so far so what do u need more to see how "powerful" rdm support utility can be in direct comparison - its not always about dmg, dmg, dmg q.q...

Neela, you know the game you're playing. FFXIV is always. Again, read: ALWAYS. Damage, damage, damage. PLD and WHM in 3.x were trash. Why? They didn't have good damage output, and their utilities were functionally useless when the stronger damaging jobs could survive through the fight just the same. Red Mage is in the same place as 3.x PLD and WHM now: they do frankly weak damage, and their support is middling to useless.

If you're so obsessed with Necromancer, go get it. Be the third person ever to do it, and the first person to do it on SMN. You never know if you can until you've tried, and it's not like it's a total breeze for RDM either.

[CorbinDallas]

snip

White Mage damage output was fine in 3.x, it was mp issues and the 30% balance which caused people to drop it in favour of astrologian.

[Dualgunner]

White Mage damage output was fine in 3.x, it was mp issues and the 30% balance which caused people to drop it in favour of astrologian.

Sure WHM had decent personal damage output. But as you just said, it was outclassed heavily by its competition due to AST simply offering more to total party DPS.

We have jobs like that today. Rhymes with "Amurai".

EDIT: To clarify, when I say damage, I mean all damage that the job offers the party. Personal DPS and Raid DPS offered through buffs.

[CorbinDallas]

Aye fair enough, from the way you worded it, it seemed like you were talking about personal DPS. ^^

[Dualgunner]

Aye fair enough, from the way you worded it, it seemed like you were talking about personal DPS. ^^

Yeah, on looking back I realized that I was vague about it. Most important part in any discussion is making sure terms are defined after all!

[maestroanth]

...And what other MMOs have you played, exactly?

Look at endgame for WoW, for example. Literally EVERY class plays exactly the same in Antorus as well, with no deviation in talent builds whatsoever, and if you do, you're either treated like a troll, or someone completely new to your spec.

Rift and DDO....

I'm actually playing Rift again because they have a new Prime server and it's fricken awesome. They have a talent tree now for a warrior to shoot lightning like some storm titan! And you can have any 3 trees active at once as a sort of pseudo multi-classing. And yes, a warrior, not a mage, lol.

And TBH, I've never really had any problems whining too much if I diverted from a pre-determined spec with those two games. I remember this was more of a problem in old school WoW. I think Rift and DDO passed a complexity boundary where it becomes a headache to ask other's their exact spec and fighting about it becomes pointless whereas WoW never quite reached that boundary.

Just have to make sure the auto-payment is off now on this game lol.

[NewAgeDoom]

Rift and DDO....

I'm actually playing Rift again because they have a new Prime server and it's fricken awesome. They have a talent tree now for a warrior to shoot lightning like some storm titan! And you can have any 3 trees active at once as a sort of pseudo multi-classing. And yes, a warrior, not a mage, lol.

And TBH, I've never really had any problems whining too much if I diverted from a pre-determined spec with those two games. I remember this was more of a problem in old school WoW I think. I think Rift and DDO passed a complexity boundary where it becomes a headache to ask other's their exact spec and fighting about it is pointless whereas WoW never quite reached that boundary.

Just have to make sure the auto-payment is off now on this game lol.

Congratulations?

You claim to dislike this game, yet you still seem to spend quite a bit of time on the forums for it.

If it acts like a duck, quacks like a duck...

[maestroanth]

Unfortunately for your mindset, we're in a different era of MMOs than the age of user-hostile, complex for the sake of complexity time sinks that massively enforced an attitude of git gud vs have fun.

Such a better era.....no customization = no fun. Bring on the science and make this shit interesting once again!

[maestroanth]

Congratulations?

You claim to dislike this game, yet you still seem to spend quite a bit of time on the forums for it.

If it acts like a duck, quacks like a duck...

Kills time at work, what can I say ;P