Stop with the pay to win advanages for retainers, suggestions on fixes

[Reynhart]

It allows for 5x more item listings and retainer ventures. That is significant by any measure of the word.

Items that you have to obtain in the first place. Items that you probaby have to craft if you want a decent refill of efficient items to sale, thus spending more time to craft, more time to gather the materials or more gils to buy them, etc...basically, you spend more time in the game to have a chance to earn more gils, considering you're still dependent on everyone's strategy on how they sell their stuff, and the buyers interested in your items.

I also figured you would nitpick on that portion of the article, where your literal interpretation strikes again.

Which just so happens to be the only part of the article that actually gives context to what is pay-to-win and have similar criteria than how I define it, how unexpected...You realize that the rest of the article only says "west don't like it while in china, it's the norm". So yeah, you use something to back up your defnition, and the only part where it is defined bring out several keypoint that the app doesn't cover.

Yes, but more limited and less worrying forms of it. Once you've leveled up beyond the max level of the item, it stops giving most of its advantage. And once you've reached maxed level, there is no more advantage at all.

And once you have enough gils to buy everything you need, gils are worthless. And any serious farmer can earn enough gils to buy new items every time they're released, and nobody cares how many gils other people have so there's no competitive aspect of it.

[KuuroYuuki]

so what i learn from this thread is OP want to take control the MB but she/he cant do that because there is optional retainer

there is no P2W tbh,it will be different story when there is no free retainer at all.

maybe SE need to make another currency for rent a retainer and you can buy it with real money or gil for win win solution.let say that "A" currency cost is 1mil gil so you need 5mil/month (for 5 "A" currency) to rent 5 retainer

[Solarra]

Or they could just give everyone an extra retainer. I appreciate the saddlebag but I still feel a third retainer with SB would have been reasonable.

I'd be happier if the option to rent them with in-game currency existed as Kuuro suggests, but I don't see it happening now they've got people renting them for real money.

[polyphonica]

Or they could just give everyone an extra retainer. I appreciate the saddlebag but I still feel a third retainer with SB would have been reasonable.

Truthfully your suggestion doesn't really address the issues expressed. However, to be perfectly honest, if I were Square Enix and tasked to respond to this feedback, I think I'd probably do something like that (because making massive changes is probably too hard at this point). I'd make it so that everyone who installs the app and links it to their account gets the other half of the saddlebag permanently (as thanks for installing/linking), and everyone who buys the premium subscription gets the retainer included (rather than only the ability to buy another). It's not even all that altruistic either; besides walking back a little bit from the proposed pricing model, it makes more people want to install the app, which in turn makes people more likely to subscribe to premium (and makes the value of premium more immediately obvious).

I also agree that having the option to rent retainers for gil is an interesting idea, but even setting aside the "people are paying real money for this now" issue, I guess the real challenge there would be determining the appropriate amount of gil for the rental.

[Vstarstruck]

If you think this app will change game play in the game and make people be able to "control the MB" you are delusional. People have had max retainers for a long time and now that they have a option to upgrade another we want to start crying around?

No you are delusional.

See now you are back to calling it pay to win again. Actually, the most comical thing

Items that you have to obtain in the first place.

You only say this because you do not know what pay to win means. he most comical thing here is not being able to see what pay to win is. You pay real life money for an advantage, all it means, me and Momomi explained time and time again you are not understanding what it means. You are taking the word "win" and auguring semantics too literally. Retainers always been pay to win, the only difference now vs then is how much tolerance there was to it, that yet again people are ingoring what I and Momomi had to say on the matter (and others)

And once you have enough gils to buy everything you need, gils are worthless. And any serious farmer can earn enough gils to buy new items every time they're released, and nobody cares how many gils other people have so there's no competitive aspect of it.

See? look how little understanding you have on the subject. Why are you even posting if you are unwilling to try to understand what people are telling you? Just because you do not care, does not change the fact it is a pay to win system.

so what i learn from this thread is OP want to take control the MB but she/he cant do that because there is optional retainer

there is no P2W tbh,it will be different story when there is no free retainer at all.

maybe SE need to make another currency for rent a retainer and you can buy it with real money or gil for win win solution.let say that "A" currency cost is 1mil gil so you need 5mil/month (for 5 "A" currency) to rent 5 retainer

I gave the solution in the first post, STOP SELLING sale space!!!! anything past 2 retainers, do not let them sell items, not hard. I find it amusing everyone trying to defend this not pay to win is trying to ignore buying more sell slots.

[Reynhart]

You only say this because you do not know what pay to win means.

No, I'm posting because your made up definition is not convincing. And you can explain it again and again, it's still a made up definition. Saying it over and over won't make it magically true. What baffles me is that you don't seem to ask yourself why it is called "pay-to-win" in the first place.

Again, the article quoted by Momomi contains several keywords regarding the mindset behind pay-to-win and none of them apply to this app...or to retainers.

[KuuroYuuki]

I gave the solution in the first post, STOP SELLING sale space!!!! anything past 2 retainers, do not let them sell items, not hard. I find it amusing everyone trying to defend this not pay to win is trying to ignore buying more sell slots.

and then there will be another thread like this from ppl who already pay retainer rent

make some limitation to system not easy as you say btw.

have many sale space is useless since there is ppl who undercut price.i always do undercut 5k-10k gil and my sale space always empty 30min after i put items in it.

if you really want gil so bad just do undercut and your sale spaces will empty,it useless to complain about additional retainer sale spaces anyway.

and then what the point of this thread anyway?force your argument or find solution for retainer "problem" that you make?

[SinisterJoints]

You only say this because you do not know what pay to win means. he most comical thing here is not being able to see what pay to win is. You pay real life money for an advantage, all it means, me and Momomi explained time and time again you are not understanding what it means. You are taking the word "win" and auguring semantics too literally. Retainers always been pay to win, the only difference now vs then is how much tolerance there was to it, that yet again people are ingoring what I and Momomi had to say on the matter (and others)




See? look how little understanding you have on the subject. Why are you even posting if you are unwilling to try to understand what people are telling you? Just because you do not care, does not change the fact it is a pay to win system.





I gave the solution in the first post, STOP SELLING sale space!!!! anything past 2 retainers, do not let them sell items, not hard. I find it amusing everyone trying to defend this not pay to win is trying to ignore buying more sell slots.

Wait wait, this is great...

Let me get this straight.... out of MY ENTIRE POST you quote this " See now you are back to calling it pay to win again. Actually, the most comical thing ".... and then respond to a half arse quoted line with some dodgy response? Pretty much ignoring the meat and potatoes of my post to "fit" your agenda.. see what I did there?

Ill be honest Vstar, with a hidden lodestone you arent going to convince me that your opinion matters at all.

You probably aren't max on all crafter/gatherer, and have only the base amount of retainers (which is 2) lol...

[Paladinleeds]

Ill be honest Vstar, with a hidden lodestone you arent going to convince me that your opinion matters at all.

You probably aren't max on all crafter/gatherer, and have only the base amount of retainers (which is 2) lol...

I've looked at their Lodestone (wasn't hidden for me strangely enough), they have BLM 60 and ACN 27. That's it! Nothing else is unlocked. So take that for what you will.

[Lilseph]

I've looked at their Lodestone (wasn't hidden for me strangely enough), they have BLM 60 and ACN 27. That's it! Nothing else is unlocked. So take that for what you will.

Yeah, it's not hidden, but it's an alt account.

I really don't know why they stick with that definition from Wikipedia, to be honest. They are constantly saying the "WIN" part is subjective and can be taken as an advantage. That's not what the article ACTUALLY states. It doesn't mention anywhere that it's not a WIN in its most literal term. But after being completely subjective, they end up their arguments with "It's P2W". Reminds me of this phrase: "If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself."

If you rely a piece of information, you need to be objective about it and not give it your own meaning to fit your agenda. That's manipulation of information.