Stop with the pay to win advanages for retainers, suggestions on fixes

[Vstarstruck]

You're just replacing your hour of clicking with an hour of tapping, and paying a microtransaction every time. Your time is still being wasted either way, and now you're wasting money too. Being able to do this at the beach or wherever doesn't mean much if you're still that glued to the market board.

muti tasking is a thing... you can craft or do w/e while price adjusting while base sub can't WHY am I explaining this again?!?!?! it is obvious what I was talking about. In the game your character can't do both at the same time-.- Even if your not using crafting macros, you can still play on the phone or type while stuck in a command animation. You never consider a duo box crafter, crafts on both accts on same time? same idea.

Well, honestly, I'm not sure that it's that much more "readily" than if they were just in the game proper, and they're paying a penalty to do so. It basically just means that people whose life circumstances allow them to stay at their computer/console more now face a little bit more potential competition from people who would otherwise be AFK. It rebalances market power slightly away from the so-called "no-lifers," but at a literal price (that the vast majority will never pay).

Doesn't matter how little or how many use it. The biggest issue with this, that one person can use this to fully control a server MB if they chose to do, we just do not know if someone like that is on ffxiv. With how some people toss money around, I would not dismiss the possibility, only takes one. In the end, no form of pay to win should exist. Putting some form of pay to win, this app, on a sub base model to hide another sub fee (app blocks 10th retainer, so basically 3 different sub fees) is pretty insulting, esp when it crosses the line of P2W

[SinisterJoints]

What is really annoying is people not understanding what pay to win means and refers to. In other words, your nonsense post is well, nonsense. Stop dismissing what people say so easily because you do not understand it?

pay to win, paying real life money for an advantage over someone else, retainers and that app FIT the definition.



I agree, because they do not effect others, this pay to win app does.



interesting viewpoint tbh, in the end both sides show the app isn't a good thing.

See now you are back to calling it pay to win again. Actually, the most comical thing is that you insist that this is pay to win because of your ability to "stonewall" rebuttals based off of an urban dictionary based definition. Do not sit here and pretend that this "pay to win" app (as you call it) is going to be nothing more than nothing...to anyone.

Undercutters will still log in and undercut. Doesn't matter if its from the app, or a laptop, desktop, coffee shop, hell I can do it from my tablet lol...

what

Sure, they will have more retainer slots but ANY crafter and gatherer will tell you they sell a LOT (if not all ) of the same markets and mostly the same items. With a few that sell the odd and end for premium.

When a "career crafter/gatherer" does it, they do it in batches. We don't farm for just 1 or 2 crafts. We do it for 5/10's and stacks and MOST have at LEAST 4 retainers. And ill be honest.. unless you are max retainers then you really have NO ROOM to say anything about this being pay to win because BY YOUR DEFINITION and I quote

retainers and that app FIT the definition.

I have had pay to win advantage over you since day 1 of ARR release lol. Where was all your hoopla then? No hoopla about my pay to win retainers when you joined in 2017. Try this, stop trying to "fit" your crusade into a definition with absolutely no reasons or basis other than to cause drama.

[polyphonica]

muti tasking is a thing... you can craft or do w/e while price adjusting while base sub can't WHY am I explaining this again?!?!?! it is obvious what I was talking about. In the game your character can't do both at the same time-.- Even if your not using crafting macros, you can still play on the phone or type while stuck in a command animation. You never consider a duo box crafter, crafts on both accts on same time? same idea.

You almost certainly won't be able to use the app to access inventory/retainers/markets while you're already in-game with the same character, because it would create a risk of synchronization issues between the app and the client. (For instance, if you were to move an item from your inventory to a retainer on the app, while simultaneously trying to start a craft with the same item in the client itself.) So probably you won't really be able to use this to multitask any more than you can already do by dual-boxing with multiple accounts.

[Sigma-Astra]

The symphony complaint by Mikki I don't really get mostly because, regardless if the SE brand is on it, high end musical concerts like symphonies and orchestras have always been luxury items that are extremely costly in my experience. A lot of the price comes down towards the specific hall that the musicians are playing in and that's actually a huge part of the pricing. Those musicians don't get to play there for free, they need to pay the music hall for accommodating their guests, their musical troupe, the stage, the sound system technicians, the lighting technicians, visual fx technicians (if any), the announcers/narrators (if any), audio equipment, etc..and this is how most music halls stay in business, they reap a significant portion of the profits from ticket sales. The ticket sales is what pays for the music hall, performer's salaries, and maintenance on their instruments. So, when you're going to see an orchestra, you're paying for their livelihoods basically so that they may continue to perform in places of interest and continue doing what they love.

It's not just an SE thing mind you, it's just a common business practice. Now, whether or not they make enough funds to cover the costs of the hall, their performer's salaries, and other things? That I can't say. They could be making more than enough, not enough at all, or they could be simply breaking even. It's too hard to tell without an actual fiscal report from SE concerning their symphonies. But, to assume that they're making bank off of them...? Eh, I think that's being a little too presumptuous really in my honest opinion. So, take that as you will, you know?

So, I just feel that we could probably leave the symphonies out of it since they're expensive in order to cover the costs of hosting an orchestra. Musicians of that caliber and quality are the best of the best, and you're paying to hear it, especially in a hall that has a good acoustic system set-up where it doesn't matter from where you're sitting, the music you hear is crystal clear and resounding.

I don't mean to prattle on off-topic...I really enjoy orchestras and the wonderful music that they bring to the table and I love going to see ballets like the Nutcracker and stuff with a live orchestra... u_u;

[Embercrisp]

If you think this app will change game play in the game and make people be able to "control the MB" you are delusional. People have had max retainers for a long time and now that they have a option to upgrade another we want to start crying around?

[Rinuko]

If you think this app will change game play in the game and make people be able to "control the MB" you are delusional. People have had max retainers for a long time and now that they have a option to upgrade another we want to start crying around?

+1
I've had max retainers since it was introduced. I hardly control any market on the MB.

To be perfectly honest, the apps concept (imo) is garbage. They want real money to change MB listing via mobile phones etc. Anyone who pays for that is stupid.

I'm not sure i'd go as far calling anyone 'stupid' for using the app. How people chose to spend their money is their thing.
I'd like to add to Vstar and anyone who gonna bash on this comment that i don't think a majority will use the premium plan and ruin the market

[Redname]

Calling pay to win to this is a joke. What exactly are you winning? Control over the market?
I have been playing for some months and i have a lv70 black mage with equipment lv295. True, im no the most experienced. But in all this time i didnt need the market so much. This isnt a pay to win game where you have to buy cash items to upgrade your armour. And about inventory space i cant complain. I have a miner retainer and a botanist one. I store all kind of material on them and i still have space for more. I could even use the chocobo saddle.
So idk where you see the pay to win

[KaivaC]

Oh...I cannot believe this is still going. If you want to have a fruitful discussion on this, and not spend endless days arguing on the definition of P2W...just wait a couple days. Maybe not even that long. Should be able to have a non-circular discussion/debate after that.

[KoshikiMurasaki]

I'm sorry. In my opinion, it's not "pay-2-win" since it doesn't help me to win the game at all.

[SinisterJoints]

muti tasking is a thing... you can craft or do w/e while price adjusting while base sub can't WHY am I explaining this again?!?!?! it is obvious what I was talking about. In the game your character can't do both at the same time-.- Even if your not using crafting macros, you can still play on the phone or type while stuck in a command animation. You never consider a duo box crafter, crafts on both accts on same time? same idea.

Doesn't matter how little or how many use it. The biggest issue with this, that one person can use this to fully control a server MB if they chose to do, we just do not know if someone like that is on ffxiv. With how some people toss money around, I would not dismiss the possibility, only takes one. In the end, no form of pay to win should exist. Putting some form of pay to win, this app, on a sub base model to hide another sub fee (app blocks 10th retainer, so basically 3 different sub fees) is pretty insulting, esp when it crosses the line of P2W

People have been doing this since day 1 of ARR release... remember? all the people getting to import their millions. Where have you been? Hell, I DO THIS lol... guess what? No app.... No pay to win hoopla needed.

You are assuming


I think you are underplaying what is being presented here, also I am not the only one calling this pay to win and harmful, so do not go on singling me out. No it is not a "mountain out of a molehill" is your server economy that slow you have ZERO competition to claim this time does not matter in boosting your productivity? I guess you never seen 2 people price change every split second for 1 hour straight. When you are clicking that much to price change, that is a FULL hour being unproductive that could been prevented with this app (and paying a ton of money ofc, prob why SE made it this way, app and the MB)
.

To The first bolded .. So are you

To the 2nd bolded -- Who in their right mind would actually do this? Even more concerning is that you say you "watched" them undercut for an hour straight. Kind of disturbing. So yea, guess what? it's an open market, people are free to sell what they want, for as much or as little they want. Unless SE imposes some sort of "fee" for relisting an item it will never stop.