Astragalos

[Divinemights]

More-so the fact the design of the mode is just generally bad. It's like a really horrid MMO version of a MOBA-style game. Also GCvGCvGC in general is terrible design.

I am strongly disagree.
Design in general is not bad, it is the way we behaved screw up the mode.
In general English players prefers to play with certain advantage or cookie cutter.
This is why this mode is dead on EU and NA.
Especially 3 way combats significantly reduce the issue of premades vs pugs.
You will always have a 3rd faction screw up the premade's dominance over pug group

[Wintersandman]

That was another one. The salt.

and the over obsessive need to capture center...

Mine was the Mech AoE's. I would be clearly out of the AoE but then would die. I would operate a mech and they would do the same thing and live. The latency/lag in the mode was infuriating. It was one thing to be killed by an LB in 3.0 but when I was clearly out of range from the AoE but still get hit just pissed me off. Also that kills didn't really mean anything in the mode.

Design in general is not bad, it is the way we behaved screw up the mode.

I will strongly disagree with you. The design is awful.

My frustration with the design is that it is so heavily focused on mechs. Which don't really require much skill if any at all.

[silverlunarfox]

Mine was the Mech AoE's. I would be clearly out of the AoE but then would die. I would operate a mech and they would do the same thing and live. The latency/lag in the mode was infuriating. It was one thing to be killed by an LB in 3.0 but when I was clearly out of range from the AoE but still get hit just pissed me off. Also that kills didn't really mean anything in the mode.



I will strongly disagree with you. The design is awful.

My frustration with the design is that it is so heavily focused on mechs. Which don't really require much skill if any at all.

That's totally fair. Like I said I liked the format, but it definitely was in need of more tweaks then they seem willing to do.

Personally I liked the mech mechanic since it stood out a bit more than just standard moba fare. However, it required too much *sigh* teamwork to be super effective. As much as I'd love the amount of team work it takes, making all of those people work together, is a very tall order and simply not realistic. I mean it's hard enough for 24 mans....

I am strongly disagree.
Design in general is not bad, it is the way we behaved screw up the mode.
In general English players prefers to play with certain advantage or cookie cutter.
This is why this mode is dead on EU and NA.
Especially 3 way combats significantly reduce the issue of premades vs pugs.
You will always have a 3rd faction screw up the premade's dominance over pug group

Yet we can "behave" in other mobas just fine (astralagos is simply a variation of the standard moba fare). But this mode did have some issues that were never addressed in terms of balance and gameplay. While the user bases may vary the game mode was the same.

I find mecha is not as threatening as you claim they are as they are solo-able by meele job of any kind.
The established cycle was supposed to be mecha > range > meele > mecha, but over-populated healers disrupted this cycle.

Because they refused to fix the overwhelming advantage healers had. Which is a design flaw.

[Divinemights]

I will strongly disagree with you. The design is awful.
My frustration with the design is that it is so heavily focused on mechs. Which don't really require much skill if any at all.

I find mecha is not as threatening as you claim they are as they are solo-able by meele job of any kind.
The established cycle was supposed to be mecha > range > meele > mecha, but over-populated healers disrupted this cycle.

[Divinemights]

Yet we can "behave" in other mobas just fine (astralagos is simply a variation of the standard moba fare). But this mode did have some issues that were never addressed in terms of balance and gameplay. While the user bases may vary the game mode was the same.

Because they refused to fix the overwhelming advantage healers had. Which is a design flaw.

I have point out the potential problem of healers have high potency damage spell for no apparent reason from the Feast-balancing.
It is a left-over from 3.0 system because healer need a damage spell for PvE.
A healer job should not be able to heal, absorb damage, crowd control and output damage at the same time.
To me this is balance flaw instead of design flaw, just imagine the backlash from Feast side.

[silverlunarfox]

I have point out the potential problem of healers have high potency damage spell for no apparent reason from the Feast-balancing.
It is a left-over from 3.0 system because healer need a damage spell for PvE.
A healer job should not be able to heal, absorb damage, crowd control and output damage at the same time.
To me this is balance flaw instead of design flaw, just imagine the backlash from Feast side.

If youre going to make a uniform class system in the way they did in 4.0, you have to figure in everything when designing a new mode including the new damage/healing that classes can do.

That's still a design flaw in my book. They simply designed this with the classes separate when it should've been looked at as a whole. I think the mech's may have been the answer to the disparity however, again, balancing wasn't done enough to bring a synergy to both out of mech and in mech people combined with the objectives.

Also the issue wasn't damage for healers, it was the fact they could outheal most single burst damage on themselves or on a teammate. It was just too much healing. I can deal with damage. But no healer should be nigh unstoppable in healing power. A good group of healers was just a wall.....esp on mammets that did tower damage. I am aware you could take a healer down with a well tuned group, however once everyone started running mostly healers....gg game over. I'll just go beat my face into a wall now....

[Wintersandman]

I find mecha is not as threatening as you claim they are as they are solo-able by meele job of any kind.
The established cycle was supposed to be mecha > range > meele > mecha, but over-populated healers disrupted this cycle.

You mean mechs don't one shot you? You never die when you are clearly out of the aoe marker? And by clear I mean outside the orange well in advance of the ability going off. Yeah lets have a mode where players get one shot and it is due to latency. That's a great game design. I solo'ed many mechs but to say they aren't threatening is... just idiotic since the mode is built around getting mechs.

I have point out the potential problem of healers have high potency damage spell for no apparent reason from the Feast-balancing.
It is a left-over from 3.0 system because healer need a damage spell for PvE.
A healer job should not be able to heal, absorb damage, crowd control and output damage at the same time.

High Potency? That is a laughable claim. I also only know of one healer class that can do all 4 of those.

[Divinemights]

You mean mechs don't one shot you? You never die when you are clearly out of the aoe marker? And by clear I mean outside the orange well in advance of the ability going off. Yeah lets have a mode where players get one shot and it is due to latency. That's a great game design. I solo'ed many mechs but to say they aren't threatening is... just idiotic since the mode is built around getting mechs.

High Potency? That is a laughable claim. I also only know of one healer class that can do all 4 of those.

As a meele, no and it is simply because mecha aoe is clone shaped (only need to step left/right or walk into mecha), but I can see it is an issue for range.
As a range, the moment you are seeing you inside the zone, you are dead already, that is just how it is, otherwise range has no counter there.
Like I said, it is a cycle of range > meele >mecha > range.
There is this cycle where you rarely see meele can beat a MCH/BRD at same skill level.

Healer potency issue, one is not an issue of course, but what happened with Astragalos is number of healers.
You literally has no escape chance in front of WHM and AST as bind and gravity doesnt stack it is on different DR.
This makes Astragalos literally no fun for meele or tanks

Everyone seems to have their own reason to not que Astrgalos, mine is clearly over populated healers, you on other hand is mecha.

[Wintersandman]

As a meele, no and it is simply because mecha aoe is clone shaped.

You are forgetting Stun and instant kill from Brute Justice.

So one WHM and one AST could keep you occupied for 2-4 seconds. Bind is only as efficient as a tool to get away or keep you from getting away. But more often than not someone follows up with an attack breaking the bind. Healers had an impossible time downing mechs. You could have a team of 24 healers and they would most likely lose.

Also Astragalos is not fun for other reasons for me. It is one of the least PvP oriented modes.

[Divinemights]

You are forgetting Stun and instant kill from Brute Justice.

So one WHM and one AST could keep you occupied for 2-4 seconds. Bind is only as efficient as a tool to get away or keep you from getting away. But more often than not someone follows up with an attack breaking the bind. Healers had an impossible time downing mechs. You could have a team of 24 healers and they would most likely lose.

Also Astragalos is not fun for other reasons for me. It is one of the least PvP oriented modes.

I did take Brutal Justice in account and pilot on there.
Consider its rareness and how small the stun circle, it is not really an issue unless you are stationary at all the time.

A team of 24 healers is an extreme illustration and I doubt it will ever happen.
It nevertheless didn't change the fact that over populated healers on Astragalos is one of the primary reason that hold this mode back