Please let us buy gil since it's not pay to win.

[KaivaC]

snip

Did I not just say and I quote myself again 'let's just say you are correct and leave it at that'. As in, I'm acknowledging that yes, you were correct about the microtransactions. Clearly you must've missed that part, because I literally said it. In regards to microtransactions, I stopped looking for it, hence why I said you are correct and we'll leave it at that.

How is it moving goal posts when I explicitly stated exactly what I feel is P2W personally? I said gachas as an example, not the end-all-be-all example of the P2W games that I have or had played. Yes, it is my personal opinion that I don't accept your definition of P2W. In my last post, did I say you were wrong? No, I pretty much said you probably had a valid point, I just don't agree with it. But yes, do tell me how I, who acknowledged some of your points as valid, am wrong. Please, do continue.

[Maleficent]

I understand the point the OP is trying to make. But since gil is currency, buying gil changes the economy on the server. Prices tend to be (much) higher when a server is flush with gil.

Gil is not directly combat-related and taking that as a definition technically not paying-to-win, it could otherwise be sold if it does not cause inflation on the server economy.

At least until FFXIV introduces the combat skill gil toss.

[Paladinleeds]

Hey and that’s absolutely fine. I agree with everything you’ve said. Sure it would likely impact niche markets, but overall nothing really would change I suppose.

I aren't sure we can base this on the niche markets alone though. Would have to look at the grand scale of what would happen.

I used to play a game where all players were technically able to get everything. Cash shop items could be acquired from events (or by buying from cash players).
However to do so the free way could takes months-years for an upgrade, whereas the cash players would be able to do it as soon as their wallets allowed (within hours).

Unfortunately, in a way that's already made possible, just in a way that breaks ToS. Gil selling sites. The fact they keep coming back despite how many times Square Enix bans them, shows there's obviously enough of a market here. As much as it would suck and enable P4A (pay for advantage), adding this might be what needs to happen to really kick them to the curb. Anyone got data on what happened to these gold sellers after RuneScape and WoW implemented these things? Did they go down drastically? That could also help shape responses here.

[Shouko]

Snip

Anyhow the game I posted wasn't to show it was a "worse" form of P2W but rather ia legit form of P2W. It was meant to show you what a "real" P2W game is, this game isn't really about making money it's only partially about making money.

Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.- Definition of P2W, which this app doesn't allow you to do.

In no way is SE perfect but you know everything you see that's cash shop is optional, you have no need to buy any of these things, pay for extra retainers, use the app, buy jump pots, dyes or anything else. They don't give you an advantage.

Now if you had to say use the app in order to be able to post in game not via the app but actually in game, that's a slight advantage for people who either don't want the app or can't use it.

Me personally, I won't even dl the app because I don't care, I'm not obsessed with making money or being connected to the game 24/7. As I also previously said in other posts I'm not a crafter, I have 3 retainers and only pay the basic sub normally so I pay 15 a month, nothing more. I'm not rich I don't need to worry about people making money.

As for you well, not sure why you sit here on the forums arguing with people or melodramatic posts that you don't care for SE, just leave and don't look back if you're so unhappy?

I did the same thing for WoW, I don't engage in their forums, I don't engage with the players or think about the game, or what Blizz does with it, I honestly don't care.

[Vstarstruck]

Influence yes. They do not CONTROL everything. My lord these forums you just can’t win. Against legalized RMT? Attacked BECUZ BOTS! For RMT? You’re the problem. There is literally no appeasing anyone here.

@larard, there is a slight language barrier with Aerlana.

Shes basically saying your acting selfish because you are only thinking of yourself, and suggest reporting her just because she called you out on that concept. I think calling you selfish in that case is justified. She says she does not like the way you think because she finds your thought process destructive to the game. The reason for this is, is from your centralized view (if it does not effect you, it does not matter) the people that are concerned over this app and the P2W aspects are concerned on the overall health of the MB, not just your personal gains to get gil. I am assuming she also disagrees with your general replies to Jackhatachet. She may not have the correct word to word to state things, but the messages she is trying to get across is very valid.

Am I correct Aerlana? is English a second language to you?

Did I not just say and I quote myself again 'let's just say you are correct and leave it at that'. As in, I'm acknowledging that yes, you were correct about the microtransactions. Clearly you must've missed that part, because I literally said it. In regards to microtransactions, I stopped looking for it, hence why I said you are correct and we'll leave it at that.

How is it moving goal posts when I explicitly stated exactly what I feel is P2W personally? I said gachas as an example, not the end-all-be-all example of the P2W games that I have or had played. Yes, it is my personal opinion that I don't accept your definition of P2W. In my last post, did I say you were wrong? No, I pretty much said you probably had a valid point, I just don't agree with it. But yes, do tell me how I, who acknowledged some of your points as valid, am wrong. Please, do continue.

I do not care if you said "'let's just say you are correct and leave it at that'." I thought it was obvious I did not. You said you "could not find it anywhere" and I was confused by this since it was posted everywhere, so I thought id show it anyway to see if you had more to say on the matter. Since you do not, I see it as you do not want to admit being wrong what SE is doing is P2W.

Word twisting, what I claimed that was moving the goal posts is not what you are stating. What I was trying to show was your definition of P2W with the stat potions is no different then the retainers. So if you think stat potions are P2W and the app/retainers are not, you are moving goal posts, you either think both are P2W or both are not P2W because your own logic fits both situations.
again:

Retainers and more so this app is P2W, you just do not want to admit your precious game is not PTW. How can I show this? the fact your own logic can prove buying retainers and again more so this app is P2W.

" Pay to win outright gives you gameplay advantages the moment you make a RL purchase. Say, additional attack or defense, or higher GCD speed, or something of that nature."

Why is this pay to win? You can buy this, use it and sit in shiro going where is my win. You have to enter content. After entering this content you have to do rotation. So buying a stat potion is not a win, you can't just push 1,1,11,1,1,1,1, with the bonus and hope to clear dps check, you still have to be interactive in the game to make full use of it. This is the same with PtW though retainers, you are buying an advantage. You still have to work and know what to sell to take full advantage of the advantage, but it is still an advantage paid with real money. Retainers and the app is P2W, it is not an exaggeration, it is not a false representation of the word, you just want to be selective in how to apply P2W

I'm not obsessed with making money or being connected to the game 24/7. As I also previously said in other posts I'm not a crafter, I have 3 retainers and only pay the basic sub normally so I pay 15 a month, nothing more. I'm not rich I don't need to worry about people making money.

Just because you do not care about gil making, that does not change if something else that you are not into is P2W or not. SE is making gil making more and more P2W esp with this app now and being able to have a 10th retainer.

You do not see the issue with 15 dollar = 40 sale slots vs 36 dollars a month with 200 slots with steamline undercutting for more fees? flat out pay to win

[Tridus]

I understand the point the OP is trying to make. But since gil is currency, buying gil changes the economy on the server. Prices tend to be (much) higher when a server is flush with gil.

Gil is not directly combat-related and taking that as a definition technically not paying-to-win, it could otherwise be sold if it does not cause inflation on the server economy.

In the case of something like a token system, no gil is created. Somoene who has it is selling it to someone who wants it, so it's circulating more. I doubt any inflationary pressure from that is going to be significant when botters are causing deflationary pressure by flooding the market anyway.

[aesteval]

Gil selling sites. The fact they keep coming back despite how many times Square Enix bans them, shows there's obviously enough of a market here. As much as it would suck and enable P4A (pay for advantage), adding this might be what needs to happen to really kick them to the curb. Anyone got data on what happened to these gold sellers after RuneScape and WoW implemented these things? Did they go down drastically? That could also help shape responses here.

I'd also be curious specifically about what happened to the gold supply in game. Third party isn't just selling gil / gold, it's also a source of botting to generate it. I wouldn't expect all bots to disappear, but the third party sites wouldn't keep their bots going if not profitable. Just how much of the economy / inflation does that account for?

[JackHatchet]

There wouldn't be inflation if they do what Warcraft does. It would simply allow people to shift gil around. If anything it'll take gil from those who hoard it and put that in the market. Maybe that's inflation? But then you have to argue that the practice of "hoarding gil to deflate the market" is a good practice--which is just wonky as balls.

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I'm tired of the "optional items, so it doesn't matter argument." Anything is optional if you get down to it. Except maybe getting 100% on the fashion report that requires mog-station items for real-life American dollars. What is that crap?

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At the very least they should make fantasias tradable, so you can sell the ones you buy on the mog station for gil. NOW THAT WOULD BE YOUR DESTROYABLE GIL option!

[Maleficent]

In the case of something like a token system, no gil is created. Somoene who has it is selling it to someone who wants it, so it's circulating more. I doubt any inflationary pressure from that is going to be significant when botters are causing deflationary pressure by flooding the market anyway.

I do read about the pain NA servers have from gil sellers / botters. Anecdotally, the inflation is there I think after generally comparing JP server MB prices against NA sever MB prices.

The culture and play experience on NA/EU servers certainly is quite different from JP servers. I can only speak from my experience on a JP server.

[ErryK]

You do not see the issue with 15 dollar = 40 sale slots vs 36 dollars a month with 200 slots with steamline undercutting for more fees? flat out pay to win

What do you "win", though?