Please let us buy gil since it's not pay to win.

[Vstarstruck]

"Precious game"? Yeah, okay, moving on to the rest of what you posted.
I have a very different definition of P2W. I play P2W games (gatchas mainly)...this does not fit my definition. I take issue with your definition because I don't agree with it. Doesn't make you any less valid, just that I have a very different viewpoint on it. I'm not applying my view of P2W differently - that's just how I personally view it. Again, I don't agree because to me, it doesn't necessarily give you an advantage. Anybody who knows how to play the market and isn't on a server filled with too many bots or severe undercutting can do incredibly well in the market, and this app may not change that. Insofar as the unlimited microtransaction, that is information I was not fully aware of until you mentioned it, and I did research on it myself. I still haven't found text on it, but for the sake of not centering an argument over that, let's just say you are correct in that matter and we'll leave it at that.

And to be honest, you have no idea what my interests are in FFXIV outside of what I do choose to post here in the forums. All you know about what I post here is combat related. Doesn't mean I don't do anything or have other interests when I am in-game. I'll end this by saying, personally, I feel your definition of P2W is wrong. If you disagree, fine. I don't view the market as being something you can actually win. I view things like raiding as something that could give a player a significant edge. Again, just my personal opinion on the matter.

I used your own logic to apply that to the MB, so if you think retainers are not P2W then you do not think stat potion boosts are P2W. you said I was twisting the meaning of PtW now you say it is your personal option just because you play gatchas, that is called moving the goal posts. Read this part and try again?:

Why is this pay to win? You can buy this, use it and sit in shiro going where is my win. You have to enter content. After entering this content you have to do rotation. So buying a stat potion is not a win, you can't just push 1,1,11,1,1,1,1, with the bonus and hope to clear dps check, you still have to be interactive in the game to make full use of it. This is the same with PtW though retainers, you are buying an advantage. You still have to work and know what to sell to take full advantage of the advantage, but it is still an advantage paid with real money. Retainers and the app is P2W, it is not an exaggeration, it is not a false representation of the word, you just want to be selective in how to apply P2W.

You flat out addmited by your own logic SE made the MB pay to win. The only one that is wrong here is you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

What do you mean you can't find it? it is all over the place

It's a misinterpretation of the slides.

In the slides they said searching the market and putting items for sale is both free and premium



BUT the next slides reveal how exactly that work, you can't sell or buy items in the market unless you use the new cash currency.

It's labeled as free because:



You get "kupo nuts" from daily login, I imagine 1 kupo nut = you can do 1 purchase/sale in the market every day, for premium it's 2 transactions per day.

Then they introduce an additional currency you can pay real money for which allows you to buy/sell items with no limit at an additional cost



In conclusion: they walled the entire market function behind a microtransaction (moogle coins) and you get 1 free coin per day (2 if premium)

they are making the MB more pay to win, each time they add a retainer and with this microtranction bs, don't be blind

Anyone thinking this is P2W go check out a game called Entropia Universe, that's the literal definition of P2W.

Also check out this article and if you've never heard of this story.

https://singularityhub.com/2010/11/2...000-wtf-video/

Being worse does not change the fact SE is putting pay to win in this game
(also that is not "pay to win" because there is no combat progress, where are the world first clears? or.. savage mounts? See how I can use your logic on something else and claim it is not pay to win?)

I would say that the advantage you buy in XIV is far less extreme than in other games, but you are still buying an advantage over people. To me, this is what P2W would entail.

[JackHatchet]

Square-Enix is clearly going in a very specific direction.

And you know what? Maybe that's ok.

------------

There's a reason why half the game is locked behind mendacity or MGP, or Pazuzu feathers. It's because those things require you to play to get them. You want the best of the best? You have to play the game and buy those items with some side currency that's not gil. So why not make gil more accessible? It's not like you can convert gil into MGP or Tomestones, or even Sigmascape cranks.

[KaivaC]

snip

Did I not just say and I quote myself again 'let's just say you are correct and leave it at that'. As in, I'm acknowledging that yes, you were correct about the microtransactions. Clearly you must've missed that part, because I literally said it. In regards to microtransactions, I stopped looking for it, hence why I said you are correct and we'll leave it at that.

How is it moving goal posts when I explicitly stated exactly what I feel is P2W personally? I said gachas as an example, not the end-all-be-all example of the P2W games that I have or had played. Yes, it is my personal opinion that I don't accept your definition of P2W. In my last post, did I say you were wrong? No, I pretty much said you probably had a valid point, I just don't agree with it. But yes, do tell me how I, who acknowledged some of your points as valid, am wrong. Please, do continue.

[Shouko]

Snip

Anyhow the game I posted wasn't to show it was a "worse" form of P2W but rather ia legit form of P2W. It was meant to show you what a "real" P2W game is, this game isn't really about making money it's only partially about making money.

Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.- Definition of P2W, which this app doesn't allow you to do.

In no way is SE perfect but you know everything you see that's cash shop is optional, you have no need to buy any of these things, pay for extra retainers, use the app, buy jump pots, dyes or anything else. They don't give you an advantage.

Now if you had to say use the app in order to be able to post in game not via the app but actually in game, that's a slight advantage for people who either don't want the app or can't use it.

Me personally, I won't even dl the app because I don't care, I'm not obsessed with making money or being connected to the game 24/7. As I also previously said in other posts I'm not a crafter, I have 3 retainers and only pay the basic sub normally so I pay 15 a month, nothing more. I'm not rich I don't need to worry about people making money.

As for you well, not sure why you sit here on the forums arguing with people or melodramatic posts that you don't care for SE, just leave and don't look back if you're so unhappy?

I did the same thing for WoW, I don't engage in their forums, I don't engage with the players or think about the game, or what Blizz does with it, I honestly don't care.