Please let us buy gil since it's not pay to win.

[Vaer]

I mean technically they already sell gil although at an insanely high exchange rate. The jump potions come with 300k.

Everyone has a differing opinion on what is pw2 usually anyway.

The most important one would be what Yoshida considers p2w. Someone should ask him.

[Zojha]

You can buy clears and get the rewards if people are selling clears. Isn't that pay to win?

Why would beating an entirely optional piece of content be "Winning"?

Or differently put, if beating Savage easier was "Winning", wouldn't getting a higher score in the Fashion Report be as well? Both are optional pieces of content. Both can be beaten without paying. Both are non-competitive, as beating it has no impact on other players trying it.

If getting a paid advantage in Savage was "Pay to Win", therefore the dyes they sell would also be "Pay to Win", as those frequently give an advantage in the Fashion report.

And while that may sound absurd, it's a consequence of people not giving a clear definition of P2W and relying on examples and nebulous implied definitions that often contain double standards to boot. It's why I find the entire P2W debate both funny and pointless.

[AlphaSonic]

Why would beating an entirely optional piece of content be "Winning"?

Or differently put, if beating Savage easer was "Winning", wouldn't getting a higher score in the Fashion Report be as well? Both are optional pieces of content. Both can be beaten without paying. Both are non-competitive, as beating it has no impact on other players trying it.

If getting a paid advantage in Savage was "Pay to Win", therefore the dyes they sell would also be "Pay to Win", as those frequently give an advantage in the Fashion report.

And while that may sound absurd, it's a consequence of people not giving a clear definition of P2W and relying on examples and nebulous implied definitions that often contain double standards to boot. It's why I find the entire P2W debate both funny and pointless.

Did you know that playing FFXIV is optional too? By buying FFXIV you are paying to win in FFXIV.

[Zojha]

By buying FFXIV you are paying to win in FFXIV.

You are also paying to lose in FFXIV.

That's because you can neither win, nor lose if you don't play in the first place.
Otherwise, I'd have beat Julius Caesar in chess. Why? Because I won a game and he didn't participate in it.
But if you do play and you 'can' win, that also means that you 'can' not win, i.e. lose.

That makes FFXIV Pay to Lose as well. Logical, but also not very helpful insight.

[Skivvy]

Why would beating an entirely optional piece of content be "Winning"?

Or differently put, if beating Savage easier was "Winning", wouldn't getting a higher score in the Fashion Report be as well? Both are optional pieces of content. Both can be beaten without paying. Both are non-competitive, as beating it has no impact on other players trying it.

If getting a paid advantage in Savage was "Pay to Win", therefore the dyes they sell would also be "Pay to Win", as those frequently give an advantage in the Fashion report.

And while that may sound absurd, it's a consequence of people not giving a clear definition of P2W and relying on examples and nebulous implied definitions that often contain double standards to boot. It's why I find the entire P2W debate both funny and pointless.

You have to view "winning" within the context of each particular game. The end goals in XIV will be different from the goals in GW2, which are different from the end-game goals in EVE, etc.

XIV endgame seems to be a mix of collecting mass amounts of gil, glamour, raid drops, bragging rights (first clears, savage clears, potd solo, look at my shiny item!, etc). Buying additional retainers, unless used 100% for storage only, lets you generate a generous amount of additional gil via ventures and additional market space. You are buying the advantage over people who stick with the stock retainers. That gil can then be used to buy clears, buy drops, buy top-level gear, afford all the millions in materia you're bound to spend, build your empire, put back into your crafting, whatever your end-game goal is - it's going to fund it.

I would say that the advantage you buy in XIV is far less extreme than in other games, but you are still buying an advantage over people. To me, this is what P2W would entail.

[Paladinleeds]

...except, I believe it was said that the free version only allows you 1 market action whereas the premium allows 2 market actions, and these are per day. Unless information changes somehow.

if I remember rightly, they said that you would be able to pay real money for extra currency to do more market actions. You'd get 1 or 2 (free/premium respectively) on the house a day, any extra would cost more money. Thus someone could say shovel $20'000 into this currency, to get LOTS of actions.

[Vstarstruck]

Yet you are defending the very thread, in spite of how many of us are pointing out how bad the idea is in the first place. Mocking or not, the fact that you have been lighting up the forums by claiming that it is pay to win is incorrect. You shouldn't twist a definition of pay to win to fit your arguments, neither should the other posters who seem to share a similar belief. There is no gameplay advantage in this. Some posters have brought in jump potions...but that isn't pay to win, because you still have 10 levels to grind, plus you still need to pick up the gear to even get into endgame - you still have to put in work. Pay to win outright gives you gameplay advantages the moment you make a RL purchase. Say, additional attack or defense, or higher GCD speed, or something of that nature. Despite repeated arguments, crafted gear does not give you an outright advantage either, because for one, you actually have to know what you are doing in the content where crafted gear would even be noticably beneficial, which is endgame raiding.

Retainers and more so this app is P2W, you just do not want to admit your precious game is not PTW. How can I show this? the fact your own logic can prove buying retainers and again more so this app is P2W.

" Pay to win outright gives you gameplay advantages the moment you make a RL purchase. Say, additional attack or defense, or higher GCD speed, or something of that nature."

Why is this pay to win? You can buy this, use it and sit in shiro going where is my win. You have to enter content. After entering this content you have to do rotation. So buying a stat potion is not a win, you can't just push 1,1,11,1,1,1,1, with the bonus and hope to clear dps check, you still have to be interactive in the game to make full use of it. This is the same with PtW though retainers, you are buying an advantage. You still have to work and know what to sell to take full advantage of the advantage, but it is still an advantage paid with real money. Retainers and the app is P2W, it is not an exaggeration, it is not a false representation of the word, you just want to be selective in how to apply P2W

So basically what you're suggesting is that players will get an advantage on the market board for Moogle coins....

...except, I believe it was said that the free version only allows you 1 market action whereas the premium allows 2 market actions, and these are per day. Unless information changes somehow. This is not a game changer for the market board. Perhaps with alt accounts with 8-9 retainers each, and that'll probably happen, but I'm still not seeing the point that you are trying to make.

Maybe you should at least try to know what is going on? there is a microtransation that YOU PAY MONEY FOR, for unlimited changes. This is why the app really crosses the line with the P2W situation with MB and gil making.

Just because all you care about is combat, does not change the fact retainers and the proposed app is P2W.

Yes I am supporting this thread so it gets people to think about what is really going on, not just take the blue pill and remain in their wonderland.

I would say that the advantage you buy in XIV is far less extreme than in other games, but you are still buying an advantage over people. To me, this is what P2W would entail.

It is less extreme yes, but it still does not change it is pay to win (thus your point) so +1 to you.

[Okamimaru]

No competition= no winners= no pay to win... this isn't a competitive game... maxing out Gil gives no advantage over anyone... maxing storage gives you no advantage over anyone... maxing out retainers gives you no advantage over anyone else... gil is already pretty pointless except for saving time... there is nothing you can buy of the MB that you can't get in game yourself... crafters arnt ranked giving them better crated items based on rank... all you're paying for is convenience... be it buying items off the MB or if you pay for the premium AP... you're paying for convenience not paying to "win"

[Dita-B]

The jump potions come with 300k.

There it is: you can already buy gil. $25 for 300,000. I boosted an alt in job and MSQ and she got 600k to boot.

Now if only I could purchase a GC boost, I'd have her apartment today.

[Zsolen]

No competition= no winners= no pay to win... this isn't a competitive game... maxing out Gil gives no advantage over anyone... maxing storage gives you no advantage over anyone... maxing out retainers gives you no advantage over anyone else... gil is already pretty pointless except for saving time... there is nothing you can buy of the MB that you can't get in game yourself... crafters arnt ranked giving them better crated items based on rank... all you're paying for is convenience... be it buying items off the MB or if you pay for the premium AP... you're paying for convenience not paying to "win"

Savage Raids don't give out items based on rank. Everthing is based on clears. The only ranks we have are in pvp and grand company.