All Greed on Alliance loot

[Fyce]

I don't understand what problem this is meant to solve. Like, doing this on the card/orchestron drops? Sure. People wind up needing those anyway because it doesn't make sense to do anything else, so making those have a single option will just help newbies who don't realize they shouldn't greed it. That change would make sense.

But on gear? Why? Just... WHY? Without any rationale into what they're thinking in doing this, it's utterly baffling and seems like someone making arbitrary changes just to screw with us.

Current situation:
- Tanks have to roll against 0 other player.
- Healers have to roll against 1 other player.
- DPS roll against 0 to 4 other players depending on what other jobs are in the party. DRG and NIN need to be matched with the exact same job for that to happen, while caster DPS share gear with 2 other jobs which increase the chances of them getting matched with a player who can compete with them.

New situation:
- The number of people you roll against only depend on what people want to roll on, regardless of jobs/roles.
And contrary to what some people are saying, rolling against the full 7 other players for a specific piece of gear will be very rare.

That's the only thing I see that get solved with this new system.

I'm not saying if this is good or bad. I'm just giving an objective reason as to what that new system does compared to the current one.
(If I don't bold this, people tend to think that I'm in favor of that change.)

[TheAngelneer]

Current situation:
- Tanks have to roll against 0 other player.
- Healers have to roll against 1 other player.
- DPS roll against 0 to 4 other players depending on what other jobs are in the party. DRG and NIN need to be matched with the exact same job for that to happen, while caster DPS share gear with 2 other jobs which increase the chances of them getting matched with a player who can compete with them.

New situation:
- The number of people you roll against only depend on what people want to roll on, regardless of jobs/roles.
And contrary to what some people are saying, rolling against the full 7 other players for a specific piece of gear will be very rare.

That's the only thing I see that get solved with this new system.[/SIZE]

And now everyone has to roll against 0 to 7 people depending on what they are looking for. If there are DPS sharing roles they are in a worst position now because they no longer only compete among themselves.

In the end it is worse for everyone, how can you claim it is solving anything? I wouldn't call putting everyone in the same miserable boat "making things fair".

[Tridus]

- The number of people you roll against only depend on what people want to roll on, regardless of jobs/roles.
And contrary to what some people are saying, rolling against the full 7 other players for a specific piece of gear will be very rare.

While that makes sense, it now opens up the situation of a caster now has to role against a healer (aka: me) on caster gear because I want it for a secondary job, whereas it might be an upgrade for their main. If the itemization in the new one is the same as Rab, I will be healing it and rolling on exactly zero pieces of healer gear. They've now turned me into competition with casters (and tanks because I have PLD) when I wasn't before.

Thats the downside to this. I can take upgrades for a main because I want them for a secondary job. That's not something I want to do. An awful lot of years of ingrained MMO etiquette says that's bad, and I'd feel bad if it happened. But they've removed the means we have to avoid it except someone asking "please don't roll on the paints, they're an upgrade", others having to remember that.

[Fyce]

You run the raid the once a week for the upgrade item. You don't need anything for the job you're running because you either run Savage or you just got tomes gear, but your alt job is ALMOST up there, and that glamour looks sick and you really want it. You have nothing else to spend that weekly gear roll on so you roll if on that glamour bait and you get it. Alternatively, it's your 20th run this week and you're so very tired so you roll on something that might as well be nice glamour if it already dropped and lo and behold, you got it so you're free until the reset. Content burnout is a real concern you're ignoring.
Neither scenario is as rare or unthinkable as you think it is, the difference is that until now if I wanted a tank piece I'd be blocked by the tank actually rolling Need on it, but now my 99 Greed roll is going to beat the person who for all intents and purposes could've MT'd the entire raid and saved our collective butts.

Funny how you take the tank as an example, when they actually are the exception in how we currently compete with loot. And that exception is absolutly unjustified. So is the possibility of you running as RDM and getting mached with two BLM, another RDM and a SMN in the same party and having to roll against 4 other players.

A loot distribution system being mostly impacted by what role/job people play makes no sense.

Every single thread I ever saw about people wanting "need" removed (or, opposite, people being banned for rolling on anything they can't use) had a good 1/4+ of the posters saying "I need every time I can need because I want seals and desynth." Now that they can't need it, they'll greed more. Especially if they already have better gear and are just in it for the upgrade token.

Is it going to happen every time? No. Will it happen enough that it, +RNG, are going to screw a lot of people over? Yes.

Then the desynth/seals people will roll on freaking belts from the first boss and finish the raid to get their token. That's as much people who won't compete for your MCH's pants from the 3rd or 4th boss.

So what you are saying is that a DRG main not only gets equal chance to getting that highly in demand healer gear, he still basically gets to keep getting his DRG glamour with little to no competition if that DRG gear drops instead? And this is suppose to balanced?

Well, if that DRG main wants healer gear, then yes, why would that player not get a chance at it? Besides, he can currently get in as a healer for that, so what's your point? Forcing him to play a specific job achieve nothing. Besides, as I said above, some jobs/roles can be in a better/worse position to get their loot with the current system. And that's ridiculous.

And now everyone has to roll against 0 to 7 people depending on what they are looking for. If there are DPS sharing roles they are in a worst position now because they no longer only compete among themselves.

In the end it is worse for everyone, how can you claim it is solving anything? I wouldn't call putting everyone in the same miserable boat "making things fair".

Making it "unfair" equally for everyone is actually making it balanced. No matter if you like the new odds or not. Or maybe do you think that it's actually fair that a tank get his gear 100% secured, healers at 50% competition, and DPS ranging from 100% to 20% for absolutly no reason whatsoever? The current system is unfair.

While that makes sense, it now opens up the situation of a caster now has to role against a healer (aka: me) on caster gear because I want it for a secondary job, whereas it might be an upgrade for their main. If the itemization in the new one is the same as Rab, I will be healing it and rolling on exactly zero pieces of healer gear. They've now turned me into competition with casters (and tanks because I have PLD) when I wasn't before.

Thats the downside to this. I can take upgrades for a main because I want them for a secondary job. That's not something I want to do. An awful lot of years of ingrained MMO etiquette says that's bad, and I'd feel bad if it happened. But they've removed the means we have to avoid it except someone asking "please don't roll on the paints, they're an upgrade", others having to remember that.

We can already roll on something for an alt-job while someone would've needed it for their main. The only difference is that we had to play as that job/role to get a roll on it. Your co-healer in your party might very well be a MNK main but decided to get in has a WHM to get the neat robe for glamour.
The new system simply removes the unfair odds of competition by making every job/role on the same page. As it should be. There's no reason why tanks don't have to compete for loot, while healers have 1 competitor and DPS can have up to 4.

It's not a "downside" to open competition for jobs/roles which had a easier time at getting loot than others for no apparent reason. At least, with greed only, everyone has the same odds for everything.
The only dowside is the seemingly lower (but equal for everyone) chances on average of getting something, which is why I suggested increasing the number of drops in each chest.

[BillyKaplan]

Funny how you take the tank as an example, when they actually are the exception in how we currently compete with loot

They are also one of the hardest roles in the game and hardly any people actually run tanks as mains. SE bends over backwards repeatedly trying to get people to play tanks, and now in one fell swoop they're nerfing one of the things tanks had going for them.

So is the possibility of you running as RDM and getting mached with two BLM, another RDM and a SMN in the same party and having to roll against 4 other players.

Which wasn't quite as horrible as rolling against 7 other players. You're basically saying tanks shouldn't be an exception because you can get five DRGs in a party but this will hurt those 5 DRGs as well by piling up even more competition. But let's make it something else. DRG, NIN, SAM, MCH and an RDM. Tank. Sounds nice but the healers always had to roll against someone else. Always. Another high difficulty, high demand, low supply job who already had to deal with eternal competition, now get to compete against 6 other more people.

Forcing him to play a specific job achieve nothing.

It gets people to play healers and tanks. That might be the one reason why they did it that I can think of, by letting people get healer and tank gear as DPS, they're hoping to even out the queues a bit because that's the one piece of content in the game where dps is the Adventurer in Need. But they're going at it the wrong way, imo, and might just make tanks and healers be in demand again because why should people run those roles if they can get the items on their dps?

Or maybe do you think that it's actually fair that a tank get his gear 100% secured, healers at 50% competition, and DPS ranging from 100% to 20% for absolutly no reason whatsoever?

DPS can have zero competition as well, I've had it more than my fair share of times running alliance raids. And yes, it's absolutely fair that if you run a job, you get the gear for it. That's how it works literally everywhere else in the game with the exception of content that has token systems in place. Which would've been a much wiser course of action here.

Your co-healer in your party might very well be a MNK main but decided to get in has a WHM to get the neat robe for glamour.

How dare they roll on something they actually play.

The only dowside is the seemingly lower (but equal for everyone) chances on average of getting something, which is why I suggested increasing the number of drops in each chest.

They should do that regardless. It also increases the odds of duplicate items, which means that even if someone rolled a Need on it, the duplicate by definition cannot be rolled on by that person, leaving it open for Greeding.