What's your first impression of Eureka?

[Fyce]

So the main difference between lvl 1 and lvl 20 gameplay is that you don't feel so useless. A real gamechanger ;-)

Well, yes? Thanks for agreeing, I guess.
I never said it was good, heh. I simply pointed out the fact that being Lv.1 mostly forces you to be a follower, while being Lv.20 puts you in the position of being a potential leader.
Again, if people don't see why that's different, then sorry.

[Connor]

Like usual, the conclusion here seems to be if you don’t like the content you aren’t doing it right / are a casual / hate grinding / want ffxi-2.

It definitely can’t be because the content is poorly implemented, full of copy-paste mobs and mechanics, the battle system isn’t designed to be in play for as long as it is in Eureka or that the jobs aren’t designed for content that lasts more than 10-20 minutes at a time (with wipes and thus cd reset in that 10-20 min interval)

[Rokke]

So, you never joinded the FATE train and felt utterly useless when they were killing stuff 10-12 levels above you? You only ever killed monsters and FATEs of your own level, implying that you could even find a group of people with the same objectives?

Kudos to you then. You actually played the way the devs probably intended it to be played.
My point was not applying to you then, but to the thousands people following the FATE trains.

It wasn't until around day 3 that the train picked up speed, and even then, people were smart enough to keep smaller groups in appropriate areas. The higher leveled folks would do the 15+ zones, while my group was essentially the intermediate bracket. I was around lv 8 when it first started, most folks in it were in the 5-10 range and we basically stuck to the "easy" NMs.

imo the train mentality has made this shallow zone even more brain dead. When I was wrapping up my last relic I joined a pazuzu spawn group that had a lv 4 and lv 6 in it. There is zero reason for people that low to bother with fates significantly higher than them - the exp isn't worth it and they are a waste of a party slot contribution-wise. Encouraging lv 1's to afk around the train instead of going out and killing shit they can handle is what makes people think that a lv 1 player is useless in a hyper-dangerous world.

[Zojha]

So the main difference between lvl 1 and lvl 20 gameplay is that you don't feel so useless. A real gamechanger ;-)

Truth be told, the entire line of reasoning irks me.

I mean, the original argument was that Eureka gets better at higher levels, right? And apparently, what changes between level 1 and 20 is that Eureka plays more like regular content in FFXIV, because you get more convenience (aetherytes/mounts) and the power difference makes the place less dangerous, allowing you to achieve more on your own and travel more freely.

But the danger, inconvenience and group orientation were supposed to be the selling points of the content. Yet it gets better when they are reduced. But they're good. Somehow. I must be missing some very crucial step here, because as it stands, dumping a couple hunts with special spawn conditions into any zone to facilitate "barrens chat" would have been just as good? Or not? I don't really get it.

[Fyce]

No, no, you dont understand what I'm saying.

Thanks for this detailed explantion, but let me ask you this:
Is spawning the Sabotender at level 5 much different from spawning the Pazuzu at level 20?
Because I'm under the assumption that in both cases you're mainly killing the mobs triggering the FATE, using the same rotation and the same way of doing so (aka: standing in one place, gathering mobs, murdering them, repeat).

All you're telling me is "You'll have a greater variety of monster-models to look at while you're still doing the same thing over and over again".

The intresting parts in our usual content - dungeons, raids, trials - are always the new mechanics. They're making the content exiting and intresting, not our basic rotation. And as far as I know and can see, Eureka lacks those mechanics more or less completly.

I understand you get more freedom and more power - but does that really change what you're doing in there? Doesnt it only allow you to pick from more monster-skins to pick from which one is gonna be the one to look at for the next hour?

Honestly, what you're describing doesnt sound as if the gameplay is fundamentally different between level 1 and 20 - it only sounds as if I have a greater variety of training-dummy-monsters to look at.

I never said that the base mechanics of Eureka changed drastically. You kill trash to make NM spawns, that's true.
But I could argue that you do exactly the same with any other content in the game: every raid is the same as you fight a difficult boss to get good loot. Every dungeon is the same, you kill trash, reach a boss, and then repeat until you killed the last boss and get out. That argument can be streched so far it becomes ridiculous.

What I'm pointing at is the fact that the way you play and experience the content between Lv.1 and Lv.20 is not the same. Implying that the experience gets better later on as your level of freedom and effectiveness raises.
Lv.1 forces you to be a follower. Lv.20 grants you the potential position of a leader. That's it. That's all I'm saying.

[Remedi]

It's not easy to say as an absolute tbh.
While I agree that mounts and aetherytes kills the selling point of it, I also realize that ppl like a sense of progression and ofc a sense of getting back at what was once a threat.
I also consider the endgame options of the place beign lackluster, however I wonder if there would've been a mess and a even bigger fracture between low level players and high level ones if there were to be high end activities once reached lv 20.

I do find Eureka to be extremely divisive no matter what and frankly I don't think they could've pulled off eitherway, maybe this is the best outcome possible whatever one likes it or not.
Frankly I would've preferred a different playstyle a maybe molre involved with less grinding, but I also find the less timer restricted content a bit of a fresh air since pretty much everything feels to me that SE is telling me how much I can actually enjoy it daily

Also allow me a small rant that is not really related to Eureka, but it is a part of the problem nevertheless.
So we have a hunteing clan in the game that saying it's underused is not enough.
We had 2(diadem counts as one) zones dedicated to hunting mobs and both times they were not involved in any way, shape or form, while IMHO they should've been since it would've given them a certain degree of importance.
Why I ask? They could've made this so much better even giving some enemies a background or something and yet nothing.
This really annoys me

[Vidu]

I never said that the base mechanics of Eureka changed drastically. You kill trash to make NM spawns, that's true*.
But I could argue that you do exactly the same with any other content in the game: every raid is the same as you fight a difficult boss to get good loot. Every dungeon is the same, you kill trash, reach a boss, and then repeat until you killed the last boss and get out. That argument can be streched so far it becomes ridiculous.

What I'm pointing at is the fact that the way you play and experience the content between Lv.1 and Lv.20 is not the same. Implying that the experience gets better later on as your level of freedom and effectiveness raises.

Yes, you can stretch this argument, but as I already tried to imply: It doesnt hold true for dungeons, trials and raids.
Compare Byakko and Shinryu - both are pretty different fights and thats thanks to their mechanics.
Designing intresting fights is a strong point of this game to me - every raidboss is a different puzzle you have to solve and master, after you've solved and mastered the puzzle of how to play your job at level 70.

Eureka, it seems to me, lacks this puzzle aspect since it lacks mechanics - sure, there are those spawn conditions, but you figure them out once and then you're done with it.
Omega offers you a variety of fights, all requireing different skills, including different mechanics... they're not all the same. It makes a great difference if I fight the Phantom Train or The Guardian. Nidhogg and Shinryu are different fights. Sophia and Lakshmi have different mechanics. It makes a difference if I challenge Garuda, Ifrit or Titan.
In Eureka? Its pretty much just the model that changes - as far as I can tell.

So yes, you might be able to stretch that argument, but you'd be missing the point there then.
If I fight a bear or a dragonfly doesnt make much of a difference.
If I queue for Susano or Ramuh does.

I can accept that Eureka gets "better" - but just in the sense how the white chocolate I dont like gets better when you add almonds to it. What I mean by that is: the content being (slightly) better at a higher level doesnt make it good if the core-element is still not enjoyable.
Someone pointed out earlier that the combat system of this game isnt designed to entertain you for 30 minutes if you're only doing your base-rotation and nothing else. And I believe they're right - but Eureka requires excatly that, wether you're level 1 or 20.
If you dont enjoy mob-chaining-FATE-training at level 1 (or 5 or 10), you probably wont at level 20 either.

[Consurgens]

My first impression and opinion is that it's an extremely poor, uninspired, lackluster content, in a game where I'm personally already getting tired of the stale nature of patch cycles. I had high hopes for Eureka due to how it was advertised as something entirely new and most importantly: soloable. In the end, I got a glorified FATE train where doing things solo is extremely inefficient and dull. I'm disappointed.

I wish Yoshi & co would study how games like Guild Wars 2 handle dynamic events/FATEs and try to get some inspiration from there. Why couldn't Eureka be true to the notion of NPCs trying to estabilish a foothold in this hostile island with the aid of players? Why couldn't there be events where mobs swarms outposts while players have to fight them back? Why not make an interesting interaction between combat jobs and crafters/gatherers, by making the latter able to upgrade outpost's defenses, build siege and provide potions and other bonuses for the players? Why not make escorting missions? Why not have multiple NMs spawn at the same time that must be done in a coordinated way by everyone in the map? Why not make fights that are less about doing the same tired rotation and more about using the Duty Action feature and tie it with the Elemental Wheel to create different effects that are each useful in their own situational way, kinda like Sigmascape V2 Savage?

Heck, why couldn't they just take inspiration from their own content, Rival Wings, and allows us to use/mount some cool Sharlayan automatons? Use the new Swim Function to allow us to swim nearby and salvage old automaton parts and have a DoH rebuild them? It would fit just fine with the lore.

I see a lot of potential with the setting they chose, but unfortunately what was delivered feels barebones and it's lazy, prosaic implemention makes me really pessimistic about the future content of the game.

[Fyce]

Yes, you can stretch this argument, but as I already tried to imply: It doesnt hold true for dungeons, trials and raids.
Compare Byakko and Shinryu - both are pretty different fights and thats thanks to their mechanics.
[...]

Different NMs have different mechanics and attack patterns. Ignoring that while stating the same thing for Byakko and Shinryu/-whatever other comparison you made- is a double standard, in my eyes. At least, it's a subjective view on it, as you and you only decided to draw the line where you drew it.
You make a difference between Susano and Ramuh? You make a difference between The Temple of the Fist and Snowcloak? But you don't make a difference between Serket and Bombadeel? Why is that? (I know why, but my point is that it's a subjective reason.)

I can accept that Eureka gets "better" - but just in the sense how the white chocolate I dont like gets better when you add almonds to it. What I mean by that is: the content being (slightly) better at a higher level doesnt make it good if the core-element is still not enjoyable.
Someone pointed out earlier that the combat system of this game isnt designed to entertain you for 30 minutes if you're only doing your base-rotation and nothing else. And I believe they're right - but Eureka requires excatly that, wether you're level 1 or 20.
If you dont enjoy mob-chaining-FATE-training at level 1 (or 5 or 10), you probably wont at level 20 either.

Well, I never said it was good. I said the experience was different.
Lv.1 can't do jack. Lv.20 can do evertyhing. That's... it.

[Vstarstruck]

Asked the pot of the kettle...

are you trying to dig up the past and drama not fitting here? I can do the same thing to you in why your postings in the mentor thread have issues to fit " pot and kettle" to you for saying that to me for how you are posting there, btw I was never insulting :3

Yes, you can stretch this argument, but as I already tried to imply: It doesnt hold true for dungeons, trials and raids.
Compare Byakko and Shinryu - both are pretty different fights and thats thanks to their mechanics.
Designing intresting fights is a strong point of this game to me - every raidboss is a different puzzle you have to solve and master, after you've solved and mastered the puzzle of how to play your job at level 70.

Eureka, it seems to me, lacks this puzzle aspect since it lacks mechanics - sure, there are those spawn conditions, but you figure them out once and then you're done with it.
Omega offers you a variety of fights, all requireing different skills, including different mechanics... they're not all the same. It makes a great difference if I fight the Phantom Train or The Guardian. Nidhogg and Shinryu are different fights. Sophia and Lakshmi have different mechanics. It makes a difference if I challenge Garuda, Ifrit or Titan.
In Eureka? Its pretty much just the model that changes - as far as I can tell.

So yes, you might be able to stretch that argument, but you'd be missing the point there then.
If I fight a bear or a dragonfly doesnt make much of a difference.
If I queue for Susano or Ramuh does.

I can accept that Eureka gets "better" - but just in the sense how the white chocolate I dont like gets better when you add almonds to it. What I mean by that is: the content being (slightly) better at a higher level doesnt make it good if the core-element is still not enjoyable.
Someone pointed out earlier that the combat system of this game isnt designed to entertain you for 30 minutes if you're only doing your base-rotation and nothing else. And I believe they're right - but Eureka requires excatly that, wether you're level 1 or 20.
If you dont enjoy mob-chaining-FATE-training at level 1 (or 5 or 10), you probably wont at level 20 either.

let me add to your argument, the difference between doing dungeons, raids, more so current extreme and savage is the challenge of being close to 100% uptime as you can while you do mechanics. Maybe the people that like this diadem do not know how to push for constant uptime as they do mechanics? In order to achieve that you need to know the fight really well, know what is coming next so you can use your cds and ocgds properly (i/e do not wildfire if you are about to phase transition, pop a swiftcast so you can do mechanic while on CD, so it is not hurting your uptime.

regardless there is no need to play your best in diadem 3.0, there is no challenge, maybe people that like this simply like the more laxed nature? vidu keep in mind who you are debating with, as I am not the only one to say it:

"People won't do bad content no matter the reward!"
"People do bad content just for the reward!"

Well on this I can actually agree with you. Because it's impossible to have an argument when one side can't muster a real argument but rather resorts to dishonesty. You've been quote mining, cherry picking, straw manning, and broadly generalizing others arguments all throughout this thread. If you won't be honest then I'm done trying to respond to you.

Well, yes? Thanks for agreeing, I guess.
I never said it was good, heh. I simply pointed out the fact that being Lv.1 mostly forces you to be a follower, while being Lv.20 puts you in the position of being a potential leader.
Again, if people don't see why that's different, then sorry.

You even missed the sarcasm in that post.. ugh
It was not agreeing with you omg
(Yes i realize you may trying to be funny hence "well yes?" however it does seem you really not getting it with your added info, so I am a bit conflicted here)

Different NMs have different mechanics and attack patterns. Ignoring that while stating the same thing for Byakko and Shinryu/-whatever other comparison you made- is a double standard, in my eyes. At least, it's a subjective view on it, as you and you only decided to draw the line where you drew it.
You make a difference between Susano and Ramuh? You make a difference between The Temple of the Fist and Snowcloak? But you don't make a difference between Serket and Bombadeel? Why is that? (I know why, but my point is that it's a subjective reason.)

Well, I never said it was good. I said the experience was different.
Lv.1 can't do jack. Lv.20 can do evertyhing. That's... it.

You are just trying to act like it is different to make the place sound better, get real.
Here is the differences:
1-8 no change
9-16: access to teleport, otherwise doing same thing as 1-8
17-20: this is where the game breaker is. You get mounts, it makes you almost untouchable, it is a lot harder to die because you quickly outrun the small reset zone of monsters, otherwise same as 1-16