When eureka dies

[Ssmiley_Bjakkzz]

Helluuuuuuu

[Crescents]

There is going to be a content update before sigma ends (4.3 I think?) that'll add an additional probably easier step to increase the relics which should keep it from dying and bringing players back, its going to be getting ongoing updates to stay relevant sure it may die for a little between those but it wont last long.

[Vstarstruck]

Just curious, are you able to reply in succinct manner and convey your point of view without using fallacies (which seems like you need to use one on almost every reply) or (in this last instance) lyrics to over-dramatize said point?

fallacy: a mistaken belief, especially one based on unsound argument.
Nope, does not fit what I said.

I was replying to this:
Most people that are calling the content bad either don't like the game to begin with or think the NM AFK train is "the best" and that's why the content sucks to them.

I was stating the observance of this:

Pattern

The form of the post hoc fallacy is expressed as follows:

A occurred, then B occurred.
Therefore, A caused B.

When B is undesirable, this pattern is often combined with the formal fallacy of denying the antecedent, assuming the logical inverse holds: Avoiding A will prevent B.
Examples
A tenant moves into an apartment and the building's furnace goes faulty. The manager blames the tenant's arrival for the malfunction. One event merely followed the other, in the absence of causality.[1]

How is pointing out what someone did, then proceeding to explain why I said it was Post hoc ergo propter hoc a fallacy on my part? My post was asking and expalining why I called out the falacy for what it was, how is that a fallacy in itself?

"How do you draw the conclusion most people that hate this place also hate the game to begin with? For the other reason, you are suggesting people should aoe farm 1 hr + that leads to Carpal Tunnel? how is this the same as mashing hard core rotation for say 5 mins, take a break and repeat? Even in dungeons you get brief breaks, I never felt so strained in doing something like this before. The only time I got close to this is building large walls, and the clicking overload there is turning in like 400? materials when it asks for them 3-5 sections at a time. This is a large part where I am just going to get level 20 and be done with it, I am not even going to go after one of those i350 gear because I do not wanna sit there clicking all the conversions."

How can you accuse me of fallacy when I explained how I drew the conclusion the way I did, where the post I was accusing did no such thing? I was using reason to dismiss the idea people dislike diadem 3.0 are those that hate the game as well.

Apparently looks like your missing the whole point so I will try an d make it as simple as possible for you. Lets break up from the beginning shall we?




This was the origin of their response....

I really hope Eureka dies.... Obviously they had a very poor experience either by not being able to understand ed or really look deeper into it on how to level up faster.

i lost friends thanks to this crap... Blaming the company over content that has NOT been out for even a month do to their friends leaving and not realizing that every mind and perspective is different gives you a clear understanding thattheya re not patient and willing to step back and perhaps realize that Eureka is only an excuse. It's optional content so rage quitting over something like this gives you two options. First they need to find more information and judge properly, second FFXIV players get burnt out and need a break. They have a life and person is probably so into it and really does not go out and try new things. Hence their friends used it as an excuse instead of hurting their feelings.

Now how it was followed by;





I think eureka brought shame to FF14 ARR they called it Eureka, though I think they might of meant Diadem which was similar, was a bit difficult to access to begin with and many players did not understand the main concept of it. FC airship or NPC once group was formed. I have an FC and actually took groups in. SE listened and made it into an instance that they can go in solo for faster access. They learned based on feed back. Once they understood the purpose of it, what they can gain from it, it did not seem that bad.

I will never introduce such content to a friend. Sure in their perspective it is an option to them, however with the statement that followed; they will laugh at me =( is very obvious that they value what their friend thinks of them and are influenced by them in one way or another, could be an unconsciously response that got triggered relating the key word friend.

As for your most recent statement.



So you are claiming to miss the point on purpose because you want to mock the idea of people being followers? Not mocking it is a known fact in society and how groups work.

he same act that takes place in diadem 3.0. Following a group inside of the game to achieve a goal that makes sense in this case being a NM train, makes sense so while it may seem pointless it makes a valid reason to be followed. How people react to it is up to them not the company, hence AFK players on the side. The comment in regards to how people accept things and have FEAR ( False Expectations Appearing Real ) rather than say, "As a fan of FF I was disappointment in Eureka, I would hesitate recommending it to my friend being we may not agree." is a more confident statement that people laughing at me.


assuming I am right and had a deep plan for this, in the end doesn't this fit as trolling? Does it? is it not standing afk in a Diadem/Eureka area while everyone else does the work considered trolling as well? Could they help and start on near by NMS to make it abetter run? It's all about choices... This is were your missing the point. Everything is based on different perspectives and just like anywhere else how information is communicated and perceived makes a difference. I'm no English teach, however even you can't be that dense to understand that perception and reality are two different things. Some people are more confident than others and are more honest with themselves and can admit to their own faults and not be ashamed of them. They speak their mind and move on, on the other hand the ratio of the opposite where they rather blame their shortcoming or take responsibility outweighs them.

I see mistaken bias, maybe that is why I did not get it, I underline them.

First problem, You are assuming people that dislike it has not played it enough, this was mocked here:

The Eureka Defense: A Short Parody

Eureka Apologist: "Yo dude, have you heard about the new game that is all the rage (pun intended) on the interwebs?"

Self-respecting Individual: "No man, what is it?"

Eureka Apologist: "Punching yourself in the face!"

Self-respecting Individual: "That doesn't sound much fun to be honest, man."

Eureka Apologist: "Oh come on, at least try it before dismissing it!"

Self-respecting Individual: "Sigh, okay..." *punches himself* "Ouch dude, this is not fun in the slightest!"

Eureka Apologist: "lol man! you say that because you are doing it wrong!"

Self-respecting Individual: "Wrong how?"

Eureka Apologist: "You gotta do 3 quick jabs to your chin before you are ready for a big punch to your eye socket, you can't just zerg punch yourself without any thought to it, derp"

Self-respecting Individual: "Are you serious?"

Eureka Apologist: "Absolutely man, how can you dismiss this game without even playing it properly? Don't be a hater!"

Self-respecting Individual: "Sigh... all right, but stop bugging me after this if I don't like it" *punches himself again"

Self-respecting Individual: "Oh my god dude, now my face hurt all over. I guess the punches to my chin did help me not to feel the one to my eye that munch since my face is all numb now, but this still is the worst idea ever."

Eureka Apologist: "lol man, you barely got started, this gets a lot of fun after the first few hours! You get so numb it feels good!"

Self-respecting Individual: "Nope, not doing this for a few hours, my face already hurts enough now thank you. This sounded stupid from the beginning and I honestly regret going with it until now."

Eureka Apologist: "lololol look at you jumping on the face-punching hate bandwagon. Back in my day people worked hard to feel all numb and fuzzy, now you people only want instant gratification."

--------------

Sorry, but this is exactly how I see it in this thread lol

on why people should stop pulling that card

The "optional content" is also a weak one because they attached relic to it. So because of that it is the main side content, and this is shown though the delays they made, speaking of witch, this point runs into the next, saying people need to be patient. They did this already, how can you miss this? This place had tons of delays and people where waiting on diadem 3.0 to see if they quit or not because they keep repeating the same treadmill since 2.xx (not sure at what point it made people turn heads and go "why are they doing the same thing over and over again?) So you can easily like the game and community concepts. keep subbed for that reason, while the reskinning content grows an increasing consideration of pulling sub without having the idea of "second FFXIV players get burnt out and need a break." The only way to support this is slapping a label on the game that reads "warning game is very repetitive and may require breaks that leads ot the suggestion of pulling sub" the problem with this idea making a game to burn out people by reskinning content over and over is housing. You need to resub within 45 days if you own a house. This is also something SE said they would not do mainly for the reason I would guess, they know the issues of doing the same thing over and over again. Yoshi-p even remarked this during his "diadem 3.0 will not be diadem" review. So they are very self aware on these issues, and yet they still release these problems, why?

The ARR thing is just way off, I think they where simply comparing diadem 3.0 to the 1.0 failure release and used wrong terms. There was no airships or diadem in ARR. HW is not ARR. regardless I did not see the need to take that post literally, like your next mistake.

The idea here is they are not literally scared of being laughed at by their friend (this is why I could not see what you where doing, this PoV made no sense) They are just poking fun at diadem 3.0, basically they are reflecting it is so empty and nothing to do, it would be a joke to show them to their friends and play it. This is not a reflection of More like I'm a leader not a follower, confident enough to not care what people think about me and feel fine with what ever I choose to do with out having to worry if I'm accepted in a group or not do to my decisions." You can be a leader and still care what people think and intertwine that in your speech. Clearly you should be able see this in me.

This is going to be very hard to explain, I am debating if I should say it because how difficult it will be. You are basically saying this is how groups work always, this tells me you are not accepting there are potential outliers? For example, a group may have 2 or 3 leaders talking back and forth getting a hivemind feedback conclusion over simply one having power over the other.

People are just afk there because board/ and or they know they do not impact anything (like how a level 5 gets exp off paz for hitting it and being there just as long they are in a group with others that can raise the group to gold) They do not want to sit there beating a keyboard for 5 hours so they afk for breaks.

For trolling sitting there well I addressed that in the paragraph above. Some don't wanna bang on their keyboard for 2,4,6, w/e hours straight. I missed the elemental spirit bonus one time because I needed go to the bathroom. flawed design is why people sit there afk, is is that simple, not to be "trolls" Trolling means the intent of getting a raise out of people, or the way I used it, the idea one can say something in such a way to keep diverting from the main focal point (closer to the literal meaning of trolling when you are fishing) nether such objective is being done when people sit afk on fate train.

For my song I was just trying put some humor on the situation to try calm people, it was no way serious. I thought that was clear by the way I said "diadem 3.0" killed final fantasy (note the lacking of XIV, was done on purpose, to reflect there was hyperbole suggesting it killed the complete franchise)

[Mahrze]

fallacy: a mistaken belief, especially one based on unsound argument.
Nope, does not fit what I said.

I was replying to this:
Most people that are calling the content bad either don't like the game to begin with or think the NM AFK train is "the best" and that's why the content sucks to them.
How is pointing out what someone did, then proceeding to explain why I said it was Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
"how do you draw the conclusion most people that hate this place also hate the game to begin with? For the other reason, you are suggesting people should aoe farm 1 hr + that leads to Carpal Tunnel? how is this the same as mashing hard core rotation for say 5 mins, take a break and repeat? Even in dungeons you get brief breaks, I never felt so strained in doing something like this before. The only time I got close to this is building large walls, and the clicking overload there is turning in like 400? materials when it asks for them 3-5 sections at a time. This is a large part where I am just going to get level 20 and be done with it, I am not even going to go after one of those i350 gear because I do not wanna sit there clicking all the conversions."

How can you accuse me of fallacy when I explained how I drew the conclusion the way I did, where the post I was accusing did no such thing?

Again, you seem to misconstrue what I asked but I will admit it lacks clarity: Let me rephrase it and demonstrate a succinct question to which I expect a succinct answer. Your replies are too verbose for my personal taste:

"Why do you find a need to jump on a over-dramatization in some replies? Other times, you accuse people with whom you're in a dialogue by labeling, categorizing them and/or their opinions as a fallacy (opinion) and/or white knight (character)?"

Yes I am acquainted with "questionable cause" fallacies, no need to quote a wiki, but that is neither my question nor the intent of it. Also you didn't explain, you individually read it as implying it.

Most people that are calling the content bad either don't like the game to begin with or think the NM AFK train is "the best" and that's why the content sucks to them.

This is not a fallacy, its a broad statement that is prone to mistakes because its a broad statement. It is not claiming to be factual because it lacks data. It's an opinion. And even lacking data, they can express that by the feedback they perceive from those who say those things.

You over-analyze things, just like you extrapolated in both zuzu's quote and manuel's explanation. I understand you're smart, but you need to reign in and take things one step at a time, you make too many mistakes by assuming things are going down x or y road.

For my song I was just trying put some humor on the situation to try calm people, it was no way serious. I thought that was clear by the way I said "diadem 3.0" killed final fantasy (note the lacking of XIV, was done on purpose, to reflect there was hyperbole suggesting it killed the complete franchise)

[zuzu-bq]

Most people I find that does the complaints are those I cited. It's not an assumption, its what I've been bumping around the OF, Game and Discord servers. And wow you extrapolate things a lot. If you don't like the content just don't play it. I did not say that it's people I've been talking too and generalized too much, sorry about that.

Why this whole discussion is so two-sided. Eureka has both positive and negative points. Everyone who complains this is just another Diadem can't realize that you just do similar things these places and dungeons as well? That is killing a bunch of mobs and ocasional bosses. I'll should calling everything Sastasha from now on.

[akaneakki]

see now, THAT would make eureka worth it. instead of a time sink of a grind.

Relic always been grindy in FF14, what you on about?

[Vstarstruck]

Most people I find that does the complaints are those I cited. It's not anassumption, its what I've been bumping around the OF, Game and Discord servers. And wow you extrapolate things a lot. If you don't like the content just don't play it. I did not say that it's people I've been talking too and generalized too much, sorry about that.

Why this whole discussion is so two-sided. Eureka has both positive and negative points. Everyone who complains this is just another Diadem can't realize that you just do similar things these places and dungeons as well? That is killing a bunch of mobs and ocasional bosses. I'll should calling everything Sastasha from now on.

You need to disclose that then, for all I know is your trying to make the place look better then what it is, something many are doing.

Where are the good points though? So far I have not seen any past people need to be forced to talk to each other to see cooperation? Or maybe it is because it is more laxed you wont hear "You do not pay for my sub" as much. You are oversimplifying calling everything "Sastasha" when it comes to dungeons, I think I may have discovered why people like it:

let me add to your argument, the difference between doing dungeons, raids, more so current extreme and savage is the challenge of being close to 100% uptime as you can while you do mechanics. Maybe the people that like this diadem do not know how to push for constant uptime as they do mechanics? In order to achieve that you need to know the fight really well, know what is coming next so you can use your cds and ocgds properly (i/e do not wildfire if you are about to phase transition, pop a swiftcast so you can do mechanic while on CD, so it is not hurting your uptime.

regardless there is no need to play your best in diadem 3.0, there is no challenge, maybe people that like this simply like the more laxed nature? vidu keep in mind who you are debating with, as I am not the only one to say it:

A lot of places, cept maybe savage, do not strive for 100% uptime. "it is only this or what" so it is pretty easy to see who is carrying some run from that. So diadem 3.0 offers no challenge and you can simply afk there. such a point of view will stand as an outlier of your statement, and I am left with if you oversimplied it with a bias trying to make the place sound better then it is. To me it is obvious people will not fit unto those 2 categories. To take it a step further, I need to question how does one define hate for the game? Can you apply such a statement to someone that finds fun in the game for pure story, pure rp, or crafting? What if the person doesn't do battle content at all or care for diadem 3.0 specifically? How can you claim they hate the game in such situations?

"Why do you find a need to jump on a over-dramatization in some replies? Other times, you accuse people with whom you're in a dialogue by labeling, categorizing them and/or their opinions as a fallacy (opinion) and/or white knight (character)?"

Yes I am acquainted with "questionable cause" fallacies, no need to quote a wiki, but that is neither my question nor the intent of it. Also you didn't explain, you individually read it as implying it.

I simply see my self is honest. If someone appears to be twisting things and make things sound better then what the situation is, it may be to blind defending or something. I do not see my self as "over-dramagzaion" I am just trying to express how I see what is going on, and I am not sure how else to say "You are just defending it for the sake of defending it without real rational reasoning. It just seems you just accept whatever is given to you. Such concepts are ok when it is a gift, however when you have many people paying for something, and you tell people just accept it, this is unfair to them. Thus this runs in why it appears people are simply white knighting. I may say blind to reflect the idea they are not seeing past "place is great because I find it fun" Such acts does not improve the game and without improvements you can't increase appeal to different personalities. Maybe SE can't do changes because servers can't handle having too many subs?

[Pastahnak]

I just think trusts are a cool idea, y'all go off topic real fast.

[Miles_Maelstrom]

The already confirmed a new area around 4.3 cycle. Probably more stuff on Anemos before it? Eureka won't die as easy as Diadem did like many think since you've long term goals inside of it.

It's already starting.

I've seen it, the people that got in early and got everything they needed especially the Pazuzu feathers are leaving. I had to try 5 times to get my first set of feathers, simply because 4 instances I tried, the player simply didn't want to do Pazuzu. It was available and no one wanted to kill the wraiths to spawn it and missed windows.

[Usho]

Eureka will die. Like most things in FFXIV when it's outlived its usefulness. Once ppl get their "shinies", the meh glamour pieces and the "dino" mount, the place, like diadem before it, it will die a slow/semi-fast death.

FFXIV is not FFXI, never will be, no matter how they try to justify or defend Eureka. FFXIV is a themepark MMO. Kinda like Six Flags. Once you finished the ride, you move on to something else.

Instead of the "Please look forward to it!" It should be: "We hope you enjoyed the ride! Ha Ha! "

GG.