4.25 and beyond

[Marcellus_Cassius]

Well, there are occasionally MMOs trying new things. They end up failing and go on F2P life support. WoW has announced a "Classic" server already, with unofficial ones being available for years - Feel free to go there once it launches and/or check out the free ones in the meantime. I know I will, if only to remind myself why I am glad about the way things are nowadays.

I'd not be surprised if some of the old MMOs are still around either. They're not graphically up to snuff, but if the gameplay is good, what gives? Graphics cards got hella expensive lately anyway.

So yeah, I'd encourage people who get burned out to take a break and experiment with other games. You might discover something that suits your needs better. And even if you don't find a better deal out there, you might come back with new appreciation of what this game has to offer.

I'm not looking for the old mmo experience, I don't have the time to invest in that in this day and age. I "appreciate" the things modernization of the genre has brought to the table, I simply feel it left too much of the old out. I think we can do some of the things that weren't perfect better today.

Edit: Wanting to improve =/= ungratefulness, sa

[Zojha]

I think we can do some of the things that weren't perfect better today.

Like what exactly and how?

From your previous post, I'd have wagered the complaint goes into the direction of duty finder and the "group but solo" playstyle it allows. "Allows", because all the ways and means to socialize and build a community people used back in the days are still fully intact. They have just become optional for most content (Aside maybe Savage) and people choose not to utilize them, but rather rely on the convenience tools because they are, well... more convenient.

As such, MMOs have become "single player games with online play" largely because that's what people predominantly choose if given the choice. And that means trying to change it back requires to cut some of the convenience back as well. The result is things taking longer again. And it's not just duty finder - if you need something crafted, you gotta find a crafter (which can take time) or you go the convenient but anonymous way over the MB/AH. Same thing goes for anything else that might require another player, you either invest the time to search/organize them manually or you let a tool do it for you. Plus, socializing needs downtime where you can actually chat with each other and downtime is downtime.

Gear is a different story, but that, too, has become largely throwaway stuff simply because it takes less time to get. Gear is used as incentive for content and once you have it, the incentive is gone. The sooner you have it, the sooner the incentive is gone. And once the incentive is gone, you need a new incentive, unless players play for the heck of it. So you need a new incentive sooner as well.

FFXIV is somewhat on the extreme side here, because it really doesn't ask for much of your time. But that comes at a cost.

I mean, I might get you entirely wrong here and that's not even related to your personal gripes. But the way I see it, there's simply a tradeoff between certain wishes and games can't really deliver both, they can only offer a different mix and different mixes suit different people.

[Darrcyphfeid]

From your previous post, I'd have wagered the complaint goes into the direction of duty finder and the "group but solo" playstyle it allows. "Allows", because all the ways and means to socialize and build a community people used back in the days are still fully intact. They have just become optional for most content (Aside maybe Savage) and people choose not to utilize them, but rather rely on the convenience tools because they are, well... more convenient.

I'd like to point out that this wasn't actually the case until 3.2. Prior to then, if you wanted to do your roulettes, you had to queue solo. For all of them.

ARR and early HW were exceptionally hostile towards the idea of building and creating a community, and delved head-first into the realm of "just playing with faceless people I'll never see again." ARR was especially bad, since Levequests were doable in a party but the NPCs would give every person a random list to choose from which made it a hassle to coordinate. And there are things that still persist, such as having to drop party to enter solo instances or needing the entire party to be in the same zone to initiate Leves or Treasure Maps.

[Marcellus_Cassius]

Like what exactly and how?

There are some discussions on how and what can be added to the game, too much for me to elaborate on right now. Essentially, more varied content that will engage FCs and provide longer lasting goals. DF is fine for some things..

[RiyahArp]

As such, MMOs have become "single player games with online play" largely because that's what people predominantly choose if given the choice.

I'm not sure that's the case. It's like the first game that added progression elements to a FPS; it worked better than what people thought but over time a lot of people resent and hate it; it's just every AAA developer tries to put it in because they think it breeds success. WoW style MMO stuff is the same way, it's a lot more top down than ground up, but no recent AAA MMO dev is willing to buck the trend.