Idea: Class split idea for all jobs

[Wintersandman]

Would it be very different than starting DRK immediately at 30 or RDM at level 50 ?

The difference is. Lets say SMN wasn't released yet. I level SCH to level cap of 70 and then SMN gets released. With the current design my summoner is now 70 out the gate with no additional effort. So if they did a SMN/SCH like branch then you would instantly be the level of the base class. Lets say Dancer gets fist weapons and is based off of pugilist. My Monk is 70 and so therefore my Pugilist is 70 and thus my Dancer would be 70.

[Reynhart]

The difference is. Lets say SMN wasn't released yet. I level SCH to level cap of 70 and then SMN gets released. With the current design my summoner is now 70 out the gate with no additional effort.

The thing is, there's little chance a new job would be release while an expansion is running. So, basically, if your SCH is lvl50 at the end of ARR and SMN is released for HW, you'd still have to level it to 60, do all the job quests to unlock the job skills and farm gear to be able to do content in your brand new DPS.

Frankly, leveling does not require that much effort in the first place, and doesn't matter that much to make you viable in content. On the opposite, if you gear up your PLD with raid gear, and you level a brand new tank, it will be instantly bumped to endgame tier gear with no additionnal effort.

[Shouko]

What is a branch? Does it have to be lore? Does it have to have the same base skills? Or does it build upon the foundation the other one set? SMN and SCH were broken IMO for more reasons than the so called balance. To me leveling just the Class leveled both jobs was broken but I can see why they had to do it. Another reason why I could see them not wanting to do a branching job similar to SCH/SMN is you do the quest and you're immediately X level of the class. Which is why they can do it via lore. You level Archer to 30 and you get to unlock the quest. It is the equivalent of doing MCH/AST but is a continuation of the Archer lore without the repurcussions of class balance.

While I see you're point and think it would work in almost any game, it doesn't work well in this where your job is restricted to what weapon style you have. So if we were to take your idea they would still have to either change it so that this or that job has the ability to use said weapon or use another weapon of the same type and limit to the new job only, the problem with this is that if you take SCH books, they tend to be really confusing on which belongs to which. Then of course which do you bring the BRD or the RNG, the DNC or the MNK, etc. Again this worked for XI because it was an entirely different style game that was way deeper. However the thing that would work would be cross skills again but they don't seem to want to do this.

[Wintersandman]

The thing is, there's little chance a new job would be release while an expansion is running.

Ninja is calling. Also what would be the point in starting off at 1 every single time? I was bummed that SAM and RDM were released at 50 but I can't say that I would ever want to start off at 1. There is nothing more boring then spamming 1 ability for awhile.

It doesn't work well in this where your job is restricted to what weapon style you have.

This is where Job Crystals can come in.

[Reynhart]

Ninja is calling.

Put him on hold, dev team had made clear that it's far too stressful to design a new job while also working on a new expansion.

Also what would be the point in starting off at 1 every single time?

Properly and steadily learning how your job works and how every skill interact with each other. Which is still the case for every ARR job.

[Wintersandman]

Properly and steadily learning how your job works and how every skill interact with each other. Which is still the case for every ARR job.

You mean like how Impulse Drive doesn't see use until 38 with dragoon when you get it at level 6? It sure is nice to not use an ability for 32 levels and wonder why did I even get it and why is it on my hotbar.

I would also argue most classes really gain their identity at 30 and therefore get the feel for how they function. Almost all Jobs/classes get their 3 chain at 30.

[Squintina]

While I personally love the class splitting, you won't find too many people in support of it and Yoshi-P has already stated no.

Personally I loved that I could do my MSQ solo instances as SMN while doing my dungeons as SCH,as it helped tremendously with queues and I knew enough to play both jobs well enough because I was constantly going back and forth between them.

Some people are fearful that it means people could level jobs they don't know how to play. Apparently some people who level SCH/SMN never try the other job until they hit 70.
But the way I see it.
1) that's not much different from going straight to 60 in potd.
2) people who want to learn will practice before going to a duty. People who don't bother to do that probably would have sucked even if they had started that job from level 1.
For example, level 70 Ice mages and Shield Lob PLDs exist despite that they have to start from level 1 and have no class sharing with other jobs. Bad players will always find a way.

But in the end it really doesn't matter as it's already a no.

[Shurrikhan]

Ninja is calling. Also what would be the point in starting off at 1 every single time? I was bummed that SAM and RDM were released at 50 but I can't say that I would ever want to start off at 1. There is nothing more boring then spamming 1 ability for awhile.

A class doesn't have to start at level 1 any more than a job does. It's a moot point. The only rule that must firmly hold is that they are are something more primary than a job. They can start at whatever level. They do not need to share experience between various classes. They can double as a job after the split point. Anything goes. Except that they must be more primary.

This is where Job Crystals can come in.

Job crystals don't disambiguate near-identical weapons. And the lack of a class, and therefore the ability for any branched jobs, means that only one user can exist.

"Jobs Only" means that once someone has the greatsword, they alone have the greatsword. If there is a Dark Knight, there can be no Sword Saint or Mystic Knight. If there's a Samurai, there can be no Shogun. If there's a Machinist using a pistol, there can be no Corsair or Gunner. If there's a Bard, there can be no Ranger. If there's a WHM, there can be no Sage. Even if the jobs may be almost entirely distinct in all ways but their weapon choice.

[Shouko]

This is where Job Crystals can come in.

Still doesn't solve the weapon issue, you have 2 jobs using the same weapons, so either one has to change or they both utilize the weapon, crystals aside that's a lot of work to keep balanced and then you add in crystals and it's twice the amount of work and not worth the effort. They can just add in 2 new jobs per expansion and have them be unique and that's already hard enough to keep the skills unique.

Could you imagine trying to add say even just 4 new split path jobs? You would have to balance them, make it so they can utilize the weapon of the base class or add in 4 sets of new weapons, soul crystals, allow them to use all the gear for that role. That's so much work and if they did that for all the classes in the game? Then of course if you did that for the classes, how would you do so for the classless jobs in the game?

[Reynhart]

I would also argue most classes really gain their identity at 30 and therefore get the feel for how they function. Almost all Jobs/classes get their 3 chain at 30.

Which is still at least 20 levels earlier that what futue jobs will start at, if we follow the current trend.

More importantly, I think branching could have a very good impact on healer and tank population. First of all, if there was a branching, I think each class should branch into 1 DPS and either 1 tank or 1 healer. This way, if you level a DPS, you'll have one of the other leveled too. And since it's already leveled and you'll be familiar with how the core class works (Like the basic WS rotation), you might be more comfortable switching to this role than you'll be to level it from scratch.

Still doesn't solve the weapon issue, you have 2 jobs using the same weapons

They're not using the same weapon, they're using the same weapon type. Exactly like SCH and SMN do.

Could you imagine trying to add say even just 4 new split path jobs? You would have to balance them, make it so they can utilize the weapon of the base class or add in 4 sets of new weapons, soul crystals, allow them to use all the gear for that role.

Still, you'd have a big part of their toolkit that's already designed, so you wouln't have to create as much skills. As for gear and weapon, it's not that big of a deal. The itemization is so bland that you can pretty much foresee the stats on each item simply by looking at the ilvl. If THM would branch into a DPS role, you'd just add it to every non-job-specific caster gear.