Idea: Class split idea for all jobs

[Wintersandman]

Would it be very different than starting DRK immediately at 30 or RDM at level 50 ?

The difference is. Lets say SMN wasn't released yet. I level SCH to level cap of 70 and then SMN gets released. With the current design my summoner is now 70 out the gate with no additional effort. So if they did a SMN/SCH like branch then you would instantly be the level of the base class. Lets say Dancer gets fist weapons and is based off of pugilist. My Monk is 70 and so therefore my Pugilist is 70 and thus my Dancer would be 70.

[Reynhart]

The difference is. Lets say SMN wasn't released yet. I level SCH to level cap of 70 and then SMN gets released. With the current design my summoner is now 70 out the gate with no additional effort.

The thing is, there's little chance a new job would be release while an expansion is running. So, basically, if your SCH is lvl50 at the end of ARR and SMN is released for HW, you'd still have to level it to 60, do all the job quests to unlock the job skills and farm gear to be able to do content in your brand new DPS.

Frankly, leveling does not require that much effort in the first place, and doesn't matter that much to make you viable in content. On the opposite, if you gear up your PLD with raid gear, and you level a brand new tank, it will be instantly bumped to endgame tier gear with no additionnal effort.

[Wintersandman]

The thing is, there's little chance a new job would be release while an expansion is running.

Ninja is calling. Also what would be the point in starting off at 1 every single time? I was bummed that SAM and RDM were released at 50 but I can't say that I would ever want to start off at 1. There is nothing more boring then spamming 1 ability for awhile.

It doesn't work well in this where your job is restricted to what weapon style you have.

This is where Job Crystals can come in.

[Reynhart]

Ninja is calling.

Put him on hold, dev team had made clear that it's far too stressful to design a new job while also working on a new expansion.

Also what would be the point in starting off at 1 every single time?

Properly and steadily learning how your job works and how every skill interact with each other. Which is still the case for every ARR job.

[Wintersandman]

Properly and steadily learning how your job works and how every skill interact with each other. Which is still the case for every ARR job.

You mean like how Impulse Drive doesn't see use until 38 with dragoon when you get it at level 6? It sure is nice to not use an ability for 32 levels and wonder why did I even get it and why is it on my hotbar.

I would also argue most classes really gain their identity at 30 and therefore get the feel for how they function. Almost all Jobs/classes get their 3 chain at 30.

[Reynhart]

I would also argue most classes really gain their identity at 30 and therefore get the feel for how they function. Almost all Jobs/classes get their 3 chain at 30.

Which is still at least 20 levels earlier that what futue jobs will start at, if we follow the current trend.

More importantly, I think branching could have a very good impact on healer and tank population. First of all, if there was a branching, I think each class should branch into 1 DPS and either 1 tank or 1 healer. This way, if you level a DPS, you'll have one of the other leveled too. And since it's already leveled and you'll be familiar with how the core class works (Like the basic WS rotation), you might be more comfortable switching to this role than you'll be to level it from scratch.

Still doesn't solve the weapon issue, you have 2 jobs using the same weapons

They're not using the same weapon, they're using the same weapon type. Exactly like SCH and SMN do.

Could you imagine trying to add say even just 4 new split path jobs? You would have to balance them, make it so they can utilize the weapon of the base class or add in 4 sets of new weapons, soul crystals, allow them to use all the gear for that role.

Still, you'd have a big part of their toolkit that's already designed, so you wouln't have to create as much skills. As for gear and weapon, it's not that big of a deal. The itemization is so bland that you can pretty much foresee the stats on each item simply by looking at the ilvl. If THM would branch into a DPS role, you'd just add it to every non-job-specific caster gear.

[Wintersandman]

Which is still at least 20 levels earlier that what futue jobs will start at, if we follow the current trend.

I just don't see a reason to start off at 1. If most classes really don't have an opportunity to learn how they function until 30.

Snip.

You ignored the rest of the thread where I already discussed not wanting to start off at 1. Also SMN/SCH both use books.

[Shouko]

Snip

Forgot to read the rest of the post...You either have to add the 2nd job to the weapons already in use or you have to create a separate set of weapon types just for that job, which is a hassle.

It doesn't matter if the toolkit is designed, what matters is the upkeep and balancing act of multiple jobs, which again they don't like to do. Gear and weapons do matter, as they have to update older weapons/armor so the 2nd job can use it or create a new weapon for every so many levels after the initial level. It's all about coding and upkeep, the minute you start having to balance multiple jobs branched off it becomes a lot more of a hassle and one way or another more jobs will be left out of raids/pvp, which already happens but to a lesser degree.

[Shurrikhan]

Ninja is calling. Also what would be the point in starting off at 1 every single time? I was bummed that SAM and RDM were released at 50 but I can't say that I would ever want to start off at 1. There is nothing more boring then spamming 1 ability for awhile.

A class doesn't have to start at level 1 any more than a job does. It's a moot point. The only rule that must firmly hold is that they are are something more primary than a job. They can start at whatever level. They do not need to share experience between various classes. They can double as a job after the split point. Anything goes. Except that they must be more primary.

This is where Job Crystals can come in.

Job crystals don't disambiguate near-identical weapons. And the lack of a class, and therefore the ability for any branched jobs, means that only one user can exist.

"Jobs Only" means that once someone has the greatsword, they alone have the greatsword. If there is a Dark Knight, there can be no Sword Saint or Mystic Knight. If there's a Samurai, there can be no Shogun. If there's a Machinist using a pistol, there can be no Corsair or Gunner. If there's a Bard, there can be no Ranger. If there's a WHM, there can be no Sage. Even if the jobs may be almost entirely distinct in all ways but their weapon choice.

[Zojha]

"Jobs Only" means that once someone has the greatsword, they alone have the greatsword.

...why?

Branching classes need to share a weapon type as much as jobs need to have different weapon types. Namely not at all. They do that for the sake of diversity, not because of necessity.

Scholars and Summoners both use books. From a certain arbitrary point onward, neither the base class Arcanist, nor Summoners can use Scholar Books and Scholars can't use Arcanist/Summoner Books either. And not just the weapons are separate and can't be used by each other - The entire gear is split, as casters can't use healing gear. Functionally, that is no different than if Scholar was a standalone job without any ties to Arcanist. If they had wanted to, they could have given it basketballs for a weapon instead and restrict books to ACN/SMN, because SCH weapons can be and later are separated from ACN/SMN weapons and thus can be a different type of weapon altogether.

And similarly, they could make a new job, give it a Greatsword and simply restrict the Greatswords intended for that job to that job so that DRK can't use them and vice versa - Just as they already do with ACN/SMN and SCH. They can also copy&paste skills over if they deem it fitting. Or not. They can tie it into a different job's lore or not as well.

The only real benefit to branches that I see is that you can get two for the price of one. Other than that, there's nothing you cannot do with one that you can do with the other - Adding talents to split skills instead of having them separate from the get-go just seems a bit more cumbersome.