Growing tired of this Stigma

[Gumbercules]

SAM and BLM whole shtick is about sheer potency, so i am guessing well see SAM potency go up as a "fix". That said at what point does it go up "enough" to warrant the loss of a utility? I personally like the design choice for BLM and SAM but as long as ppl meta everything, anything shy of like 50% damage buffs will probably keep resulting in them being benched for progress and "forgotten" after said progress. (maybe in the spirit of keeping with them being pure damage dealers they could do something with that, as in a debuff they add to a mob based off their relative damage to the rest of the group? Would go with the idea that they are a battering ram too, ie the group carries them so they can break things down)

[AcaciaTyrannia]

Sam and BLM work so long as their damage is higher than alternative jobs. It just so happens that if you look at FFlogs 90th%+ parses on EVERY sigmascape savage party, BLM and SAM are the highest. So what's the problem?

Like i said earlier, I have NEVER been excluded from anything because I was BLM or SAM, so i have a hard time believing there are people out there they'll kick you from a party because of that.

But I have an EASY time believing, OP just didn't do enough damage to justify his/her spot, and got kicked for that. Which, I mean... Can you blame them? You'd kick a healer for not healing.

[AxlStream]

So nobody is saying the real reason now? Guess I'll have to do it.

In a public setting most Samurai mains are a weeb stick wielding hindrance. Sure SAM CAN deal insane amounts of damage but how many actual SAM players can tap into it? Not many, and those that can are picked up by statics and don't need to go into PF. Which leaves us with the wannabe DPS player that thinks he's hot (cuz SAM) and will die over and over and over to optimize uptime while being caught up by a WAR or PLD that know what they're doing. SAM just attracted this type of bad player and the whole class suffers for it.

If you talk about utility out of a group that wants to get Savage down, you are a fool. Most PF players forget their utility even exists, let alone know when to use it and others, when to expect it to cash in on it. I seen NIN use TA when nobody had burst, RDM wasting Embolden and other atrocities. Sadly those aren't an exception but the norm. The only thing that happens somewhat reliably, is the tank getting Shadewalker on pull. Rest of the fight, you never see it.

tl;dr : Average players are bad and makes a class hard to perform on look bad.

[AcaciaTyrannia]

My, how cynnical. I don't think Samurai attracts any more or less "bad players" than any other class. But i do think that if you're going to play BLM or SAM you have GOT to be on point with your parse. You're not like dragoon or red mage that can hide behind utility. You've GOT to produce results..

Otherwise.. you should consider playing something else. =/

[Gumbercules]

Think the issue is with SAM and BLM having to be wielded right by not just the player of said job, but the group. In a close nit, or static group, I would go so far as to say it is a overall damage lost to not have one or the other. that said most PUGs form up around the idea of worse case scenarios, and the truth is once a group starts to flounder around the chance the first to get axed is the SAM or BLM is pretty high.

This is partly from lemming mindsets around the meta, but even in a more intelligent manner could just be from a group seeking a few more utilities to add into survival. That said, design wise i still feel SAM and BLM is a solid design.....so this ones a toughie XD

Personally i am at best a half ass SAM :P But i tend to do stuff when i actually bother to do it with LS members or friends though so the actual "being removed" thing is something i really can't comment on though XD

[RLofOBFL]

Based on personal experience all of last tier number running, SAM & BLM seemed to have a disproportionately high amount of bad players. So did BRD but at least they had refresh.

A job utility adds around ~600 rdps so for Yoshis whole high damage thing to work, SAM & BLM need to be significantly higher than they are now. & MNK's rng schtick lets it outdps both of them, sometimes by broken amounts.

I don't understand why they won't fix unbalanced classes. Look what they did to SMN, it went from garbage to almost meta, even after nerfs.

[ElasmoFan]

"Q5: Do you have any plans to buff support abilities for jobs that didn’t receive any update in Patch 4.2, such as samurai and red mage?

A5: We have no plans to make any adjustment to red mage at this time. Since we buffed monk, players are asking for some type of buff for samurai, so we’re thinking of making adjustments that will push their DPS to match their job concept."

This was from the recent letter. Their meant to have higher dps then the other melee jobs so they're going to be adjusted to fix that. Don't expect anything grandiose or huge, just a small potency increase here and there to set them past monk in dps.

[HyoMinPark]

Sam and BLM work so long as their damage is higher than alternative jobs. It just so happens that if you look at FFlogs 90th%+ parses on EVERY sigmascape savage party, BLM and SAM are the highest. So what's the problem?

The problem lies with jobs that offer utility straight-up out-damaging the selfish jobs, or being right on their tail. There is an O6S parse where an orange-tier BLM only outDPS’d an orange-tier SMN by 200, and the BLM had 13 Balances. The SMN had 7~8 Balances. That’s a problem, when you take two consistent, high-level players, and the “selfish DPS” only pulls ahead by 200 DPS with double the amount of padding.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Sam and BLM work so long as their damage is higher than alternative jobs. It just so happens that if you look at FFlogs 90th%+ parses on EVERY sigmascape savage party, BLM and SAM are the highest. So what's the problem?

Those are personal damage calculations. Dragoon has lower personal DPS but provides upwards over 600+ rDPS; more if you run both Bard and Machinist. The argument lies that utility buffs wind up contributing more overall damage than selfish jobs can produce. And this isn't even accounting for support utility like Refresh.

[AppleJinx]

Well they'd have to buff Samurai and Black Mage by a lot in order for them to become viable to bring to optimized kill runs but that also means they'll be broken in non savage and ex content