Please Reconsider MSQ Changes

[Vstarstruck]

"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_exploits

Being able to DC in order to skip undesired CSs is most definitely an exploit.

Nope, you said exactly why it is not an exploit, it is a loophole, all it is.

[Skivvy]

Nope, you said exactly why it is not an exploit, it is a loophole, all it is.

So you think that SE intentionally programmed the instance to allow a DC to skip CSs? Those CSs that they just changed to be mandatory?

[BillyKaplan]

Those CSs that they just changed to be mandatory?

If anything it just comes to show how bad that decision was made that it's so easily work-aroundable by the very nature of the rest of the system. Their alternative in this case would be to make it so that you can't progress or trigger the boss without everyone having seen the cutscene in full, like quest progression............ but if they're already actually changing the mechanics of those instances, which they didn't want to do, hence this rushed "solution", I'd much prefer they cracked and changed them into solo instances. It might actually be less work to boot.

[Jijifli]

So you think that SE intentionally programmed the instance to allow a DC to skip CSs? Those CSs that they just changed to be mandatory?

Then why is it coded like that? They could code it so that it resets the cutscene if you dc so you don't miss story from it by accident, but they don't.

[Skivvy]

If anything it just comes to show how bad that decision was made that it's so easily work-aroundable by the very nature of the rest of the system. Their alternative in this case would be to make it so that you can't progress or trigger the boss without everyone having seen the cutscene in full, like quest progression............ but if they're already actually changing the mechanics of those instances, which they didn't want to do, hence this rushed "solution", I'd much prefer they cracked and changed them into solo instances. It might actually be less work to boot.

I am very much in the camp that feels this was a lazy fix by SE, but that still doesn't make DCing to avoid CSs an acceptable option.

Exploits aside, the point of the MSQ roulette was to help recruit players to move sprouts through incredibly outdated MSQ content that no one would run otherwise. As long as the queue times remain decent, I personally would be content if they just remove the mandatory CSs for groups that have no sprout or are made through PF. We all still have the choice whether or not we feel the MSQ is worth our time.

Then why is it coded like that? They could code it so that it resets the cutscene if you dc so you don't miss story from it by accident, but they don't.

Because this is a new fix that was placed on top of old coding perhaps. I'm not a programmer, I have no idea how hard it is to catch every single possible interaction between old and new - but I imagine unintended results slip through now and then.

If SE had intended for players to be able to skip CSs, they would have left the "skip" option in game. If you are truly trying to argue that SE intended players to be able to purposefully DC while in a dungeon, in order to bypass their new-mandatory CSs - I just don't know what to tell you. If you plan on being one of those people that DCs, feel free to try and convince yourself it's fine in whatever manner you wish.

[BillyKaplan]

Because this is a new fix that was placed on top of old coding perhaps.

This. This entire fix was likely because SE doesn't want to bother with reopening that code and changing things around. Otherwise there's a variety of options they could've gone with that likely would've been better received by a lot more people.

[kikix12]

"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers."

Being able to DC in order to skip undesired CSs is most definitely an exploit.

You do know that this is a thin ice you're skating on, right?! I am not one to use this method to skip the cutscenes...I simply don't enter the dungeons anymore...but there are legal reasons why Square is extremely unlikely to follow this route. Despite what some people may think, they cannot willy-nilly ban players without a reason. And if they will ban some players for a kind of offense (exploit) and ignore other players that make the same kind of offense (exploit) even when they KNOW about it (aka. they got reports) may lead to legal issues in respect to the bans validity. Selective enforcement of rules is against fair business practices in pretty much any country where a such a trifle is enough to be a problem for the people.

You see, the "skip soar" is an exploit. Even using the undersized party feature to skip mechanics is an exploit. The fights were meant to be done in full. Every time you outperform their expectations in a fight to skip a mechanic, you exploit it. Whenever you just stand there doing nothing half of the time, you exploit the fact that this games sync system and base difficulty is not very balanced and allows others to carry you through.

Definitions are general for a reason. There needs to be a certain amount of thought behind enforcing them, as people in higher positions are expected to be "fair". As such, they chose people to play the game how they wanted to, so long as they don't use actual cheats or heavy exploits that, for example, let you deal exponentially more damage or become invulnerable. Skipping some waiting time is not nearly enough to warrant it being considered significant. In the end, the person may end up getting nothing from it if not enough people do it. And even what he will get will be lessened by the fact that someone will still watch the cutscene, so the gain is decreased even more. In comparison, "skip soar" and similar give a very major advantage. They let you avoid a do-or-die situation that could have failed you. And if you manage to use that exploit, you ALWAYS gain that from it.

In the end, they cannot really ban people for "gameplay differences". They need to use their resources to make undesired gameplay differences impossible. If they want people to not waste time in dungeons, they need to put a system that boots them from the party with a penalty if their "up-time" is not high enough, for example. Or force an instant-kill if a mechanic is managed to be avoided, like you can do in Ifrit Extreme if you take him down too much without killing the nails first.

[Skivvy]

You do know that this is a thin ice you're skating on, right?! I am not one to use this method to skip the cutscenes...I simply don't enter the dungeons anymore...but there are legal reasons why Square is extremely unlikely to follow this route. Despite what some people may think, they cannot willy-nilly ban players without a reason. And if they will ban some players for a kind of offense (exploit) and ignore other players that make the same kind of offense (exploit) even when they KNOW about it (aka. they got reports) may lead to legal issues in respect to the bans validity. Selective enforcement of rules is against fair business practices in pretty much any country where a such a trifle is enough to be a problem for the people.

You see, the "skip soar" is an exploit. Even using the undersized party feature to skip mechanics is an exploit. The fights were meant to be done in full. Every time you outperform their expectations in a fight to skip a mechanic, you exploit it. Whenever you just stand there doing nothing half of the time, you exploit the fact that this games sync system and base difficulty is not very balanced and allows others to carry you through.

Definitions are general for a reason. There needs to be a certain amount of thought behind enforcing them, as people in higher positions are expected to be "fair". As such, they chose people to play the game how they wanted to, so long as they don't use actual cheats or heavy exploits that, for example, let you deal exponentially more damage or become invulnerable. Skipping some waiting time is not nearly enough to warrant it being considered significant. In the end, the person may end up getting nothing from it if not enough people do it. And even what he will get will be lessened by the fact that someone will still watch the cutscene, so the gain is decreased even more. In comparison, "skip soar" and similar give a very major advantage. They let you avoid a do-or-die situation that could have failed you. And if you manage to use that exploit, you ALWAYS gain that from it.

In the end, they cannot really ban people for "gameplay differences". They need to use their resources to make undesired gameplay differences impossible. If they want people to not waste time in dungeons, they need to put a system that boots them from the party with a penalty if their "up-time" is not high enough, for example. Or force an instant-kill if a mechanic is managed to be avoided, like you can do in Ifrit Extreme if you take him down too much without killing the nails first.

I'm not asking for people to be banned over this. However, I was trying to clarify that it is in fact an exploit, as some people are claiming it's not. People can defend using this method all they want, but it doesn't change what it is. That's all.

IMO, there are far better things to be wasting GMs time with than "this guy DC'd in order to skip a CS!".

[gahoo]

Has it been suggested for these duties to be broken into pieces (with the forced cut scenes)? That way, a roulette run would be doable in a reasonable amount of time, but new players would still get the full effect and could just run them in a row?

[Iscah]

Disconnecting during the cutscene (whether deliberately or from a genuine network issue) is one thing; running ahead of other people because you ‘escaped’ the intended lockdown on everyone’s movement is something else entirely.

If you use that time to organise your inventory or just not have to watch the same video over and over, that’s not an issue.

A coordinated group of people disconnecting and carrying on through the dungeon? Fine, if everyone is in on it. Organise it through PF so you don’t get other people caught up in it. From the sound of this discussion, there should be no shortage of volunteers.

Leaving people behind because you skipped the cutscene and they didn’t? It’s not okay. You go into the roulette accepting that you will have to wait for people - and if more people had been patient with newcomers before this point, Square might not have felt obligated to force it upon everyone.