The time has come to get rid of enrage timers

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Do I take you seriously if you talk about job balance despite only having 3 70s?

How is this remotely comparable? The actual equivalent would be me giving Scholar advice when it's fairly obviously I don't play it. Bobs is claiming Ultimate isn't hard yet has never even set foot inside it. As someone who has, let me tell, Ultimate is on a whole separate level. For him to make such a remark screams ignorance.

[RiyahArp]

How is this remotely comparable? The actual equivalent would be me giving Scholar advice when it's fairly obviously I don't play it. Bobs is claiming Ultimate isn't hard yet has never even set foot inside it. As someone who has, let me tell, Ultimate is on a whole separate level. For him to make such a remark screams ignorance.

My point is more for the tendency that I have been noticing that only 3 and 4 are the real endgame, and that you can't comment on raiding at all unless you beat 4. The job thing was an analogy to that; because leveling all jobs to 70 is a rough equivalent of gatekeeping compared to leveling only a few. As for people commenting on easiness, well it works both ways; its just annoying to people who do o1s and o2 who get all their efforts dismissed in the same manner. I keep seem to get my main points misunderstood, though I try to restate them.

And whose fault do you think that is? Because last I checked, it's not usually raiders complaining about the skill ceiling...it's more or less midcores and casuals who complain.

There's no fault at all. I mean there isn't simply enough players who can reach a level of skill that can populate a game. MMOs cost too much to turn into niche hardcore games that rely on a small playerbase.

[KaivaC]

You're usually so calm and cool but this... this is a gem. Thank you ma'am. You've brightened an otherwise boring day. Take all my likes, they're yours. Stand up to those crybullies! It's appreciated by those of us with less patience.

Do I get a real life minion of me? Oh......wait, I just came up with another idea, build-a-bear style.

There's no fault at all. I mean there isn't simply enough players who can reach a level of skill that can populate a game. MMOs cost too much to turn into niche hardcore games that rely on a small playerbase.

MMOs themselves are a niche market. Outside of WoW, there's really not any MMOs that have been able to generate a massive playerbase, and that includes FFXIV. Subscription model or not, MMOs cater to specific groups of players. Triple-A games tend to bring in a huge portion of the player market. And, borrowing from what you've been saying earlier, Ultimate probably didn't have high or moderate production costs. I say probably, because this is SE, so who knows how exactly they divy up their budget, but given that Ultimate is largely reused assets with intense mechanics, the production costs for harder content may not actually be as high as you are implying.

[RiyahArp]

:MMOs themselves are a niche market. Outside of WoW, there's really not any MMOs that have been able to generate a massive playerbase, and that includes FFXIV.

I don't think they are that niche. If we have 800k accounts, that's more than the sales numbers of many games, and if you double it (assuming people who subbed then quit) that's more than any but the best video games. It's also at least double ffxi's population and 4 times everquest's original population. And among MMOs itself, that's huge; niche MMOs barely break 10k subs if they even last. Stuff like A Tale in the Desert, for example.

I just meant that reply for someone who was kind of bewaliling having to support the casuals. There simply isn't enough high skilled hardcore to support this game. If you make it harder to try and focus on them, it really won't work well. Not to say it would die, but this game would be a lot different with 100k total subs than 800k.

[KaivaC]

I don't think they are that niche. If we have 800k accounts, that's more than the sales numbers of many games, and if you double it (assuming people who subbed then quit) that's more than any but the best video games. It's also at least double ffxi's population and 4 times everquest's original population. And among MMOs itself, that's huge; niche MMOs barely break 10k subs if they even last. Stuff like A Tale in the Desert, for example.

I just meant that reply for someone who was kind of bewaliling having to support the casuals. There simply isn't enough high skilled hardcore to support this game. If you make it harder to try and focus on them, it really won't work well. Not to say it would die, but this game would be a lot different with 100k total subs than 800k.

We have, what, Wow, FFXIV, ESO, GW2, Eve, BSO, SWTOR (which is dying)...and that's it for MMOs for the most part as far has having a sizable market at a minimum. While these MMOs do pull in a good chunk of players, that audience tends to build over time. Whereas Triple-A titles are often the ones that break sales records upon release, upon first week of release, and upon first month of release. When I say Triple-A, I'm talking about titles like Call of Duty (before they screwed themselves over), Mass Effect (before Andromeda), Final Fantasy (particularly 7, 9, 10, 12, and 15), and I'll even use a non-Triple A title in the Witcher 3 (CD Projekt Red is still technically an indie studio).

That's why I feel MMOs are still something of a niche market. The MMOs we play don't exactly reach across to a national or worldwide audience in quite the same manner as what triple-A studios are capable of achieving. If I were to use an analogy...think of MMOs as a slow burn, gradually spreading over a number of months and years before finally starting to reach and break peak audience numbers.

On your other part, do you mean purely hardcores, or are you lumping midcore players in with the hardcore crowd? I lean towards hardcore, but I'm a midcore at best personally. To a point, you are right that this game shouldn't put a huge focus on hardcore. But...I feel like this might be bleeding into another discussion at large, so I'll just end this particular post by saying that while it may be true that there aren't a lot of high skilled hardcore players, that does not mean that there can't be content for the casual>midcore crowd.

And let's be honest - enrage is not the only issue that has come out here. It's a mixture of somewhat decent hard DPS checks, player competence vs reality, PUG capabilities, and a lack of legitimate alternatives to how to replace enrage without ruining both lore and the fight itself.

I recall someone saying several pages back that O3S boss pulls power out of nowhere to wipe the party. I meant to respond to that as well. But no, she didn't 'pull power out of nowhere'. She just got bored with you and stopped giving you chances to complete one of her games. And honestly, O3S is not one of those fights that should be endless...healers will definitely run out of MP at some point if she more HP with no enrage timer just because of all the pure burst healing you have to do for lengthy periods of time.