The time has come to get rid of enrage timers

[Miste]

...one fight. Why do people constantly say "if you haven't beaten this one fight, you can't talk about anything?" It gets old. You have people saying bobs can't talk because he hasn't beaten two fights

If someone is going to call any fight in this game "easy" or "not a challenge" then I expect them to have experienced said fights.

How can you say something is "easy" or "not challenging" to do when you haven't even step foot in the fight at all nor have a clear of said fight?

It's like if I said coronary artery bypass surgery is not a challenge to learn or to perform. I don't have a PHD nor am I a surgeon and I have never learned or performed said surgery so how can I say that? lol

People making claims about subjects they have no idea about or that they've never experienced usually doesn't work for obvious reasons.

[Vaer]

...one fight. Why do people constantly say "if you haven't beaten this one fight, you can't talk about anything?" It gets old. You have people saying bobs can't talk because he hasn't beaten two fights

There's a difference though, he's claiming it's super easy but hasn't even beaten the fights yet? That's like if someone knew how to play Mary Had a Little Lamb on the piano, they look up a video of a more sophisticated and longer 5+ minute piece and say "wow that's easy, it's just hitting a bunch of keys in a certain order" and can't actually play it. Just makes them look silly and ignorant.

[RiyahArp]

Oh, and get this... I've fought everything in PVE content as far as post 4.0 with the notable exception of O4S. Which I have told you on multiple occasions..

I used you as a general point. People here are essentially saying "shut up until you've maxed current raid content in this game." There's really only ultimate after this, and according to Lucky Bancho's recent census barely 300 people in all of NA have cleared it. I think enrage in concept is something that you don't really need to make such a fine distinction, because it works the same way in ex/savage fights despite difficulty. The idea is the same; if you don't do enough long term dps the boss ends the fight after a certain phase, and its really only in ex and up content where you see it often enough where it makes a difference in failing fights.

I don't really like it if we're making raids all about two fights in the entire game now.

There's a difference though, he's claiming it's super easy but hasn't even beaten the fights yet? That's like if someone knew how to play Mary Had a Little Lamb on the piano, they look up a video of a more sophisticated and longer 5+ minute piece and say "wow that's easy, it's just hitting a bunch of keys in a certain order" and can't actually play it. Just makes them look silly and ignorant.

The argument has been made in general, though. I'm sort of replying to that. And people have a bad tendency to say everything is easy once they've beaten it period. I'm sort of commenting on how apparently only two fights in this game are "real" raids because of difficulty, while the rest is just baby's first raid or something apaprently.

[Kazrah]

That's not saying much. Sephirot was only hard because the tethers didn't (and still don't) adjust; if you had someone dead when they went out, minimally one other person would also be dying. Heavens help you if someone went and got themselves knocked off the platform. Sephirot also had this thing about using one-shot kills instead of proper damage, but his song and dance wasn't particularly difficult.

Thordan EX is the HW Primal that broke people.

Sephirot was only hard because the fight was designed by the same guy who designed the Titan EX fight, and Thordan was only hard because it was one of the first EX fights that threw more than a couple of mechanics at the group at once.

As for Byakko, I think the fight is designed as a means of training people up for Sigmascape Savage (or at least give them better weapons for it), so I suspect there will be a moderate degree of difficulty there and probably on par with Shinryu EX or harder.

[AxlStream]

The argument has been made in general, though. I'm sort of replying to that. And people have a bad tendency to say everything is easy once they've beaten it period. I'm sort of commenting on how apparently only two fights in this game are "real" raids because of difficulty, while the rest is just baby's first raid or something apaprently.

But... O1S and O2S litterally are "Baby's first raid"! The only other Savage fight that was close to them on difficulty out of the Savage content WHILE it was current, was A9S. Also A9S had 2 enrage timers!

[CreinCrein]

Maybe 14 should've been developed by Fisher Price

[RiyahArp]

But... O1S and O2S litterally are "Baby's first raid"! The only other Savage fight that was close to them on difficulty out of the Savage content WHILE it was current, was A9S. Also A9S had 2 enrage timers!

Might as well call ex trials not raiding either, since overall they are simpler than 03s and 04s. Pretty soon we'll call all raids useless, the only real endgame is whether you can beat ultimate or not. But I mean even at a lowered difficulty, the design is still similar enough that you can understand enrage and talk about it, because it does effect players in the same way. You pug O1s in a learning party, people hit enrage for the same reasons in later fights. The bar is lower but works the same way, where none of the fights in exprt stuff even last long enough to do so.

[KaivaC]

I used you as a general point. People here are essentially saying "shut up until you've maxed current raid content in this game." There's really only ultimate after this, and according to Lucky Bancho's recent census barely 300 people in all of NA have cleared it. I think enrage in concept is something that you don't really need to make such a fine distinction, because it works the same way in ex/savage fights despite difficulty. The idea is the same; if you don't do enough long term dps the boss ends the fight after a certain phase, and its really only in ex and up content where you see it often enough where it makes a difference in failing fights.

I don't really like it if we're making raids all about two fights in the entire game now.

Except whatever point you thought you were making makes no sense in context because most of the things you were talking about had nothing to do with me.

I have no idea why you keep up bringing up lucky bancho. It only reports clears for people who get the mounts. Not everyone has the mount. And for whatever reason, you keep on mentioning the hardest fight in the game thus far. It's like you quote data you don't even understand

Dunno where you got the idea that people are making the game about raids. You've been the threads springing up about housing. What are you talking about

[RiyahArp]

Except whatever point you thought you were making makes no sense in context because most of the things you were talking about had nothing to do with me.

He's really the only data we have. And the numbers in general are still low enough you could high ball them by a factor of 3 and have issues. Its not about raids in game, my initial point was that people are trying to make "serious" raiding only encompassing two fights, and i used ultimate as a point to show how silly the mindset is, because for someone who beats that nothing in the game before is a serious raid any more. You were just a convenient example to show the dangers of making maxed out content a requirement to talk about stuff.

[AxlStream]

Might as well call ex trials not raiding either, since overall they are simpler than 03s and 04s. Pretty soon we'll call all raids useless, the only real endgame is whether you can beat ultimate or not. But I mean even at a lowered difficulty, the design is still similar enough that you can understand enrage and talk about it, because it does effect players in the same way. You pug O1s in a learning party, people hit enrage for the same reasons in later fights. The bar is lower but works the same way, where none of the fights in exprt stuff even last long enough to do so.

We all know what enrage is. What we're saying is, people that can't deal with said enrage timers shouldn't talk about them. It's not the timer that's faulty, it's the players performances. Also I play Scholar but do you see me talking about them on the forums saying they need buffs? No. Because I don't master Scholar like I master the end game fights. Therefor I talk about end game fight mechanics and not Scholars.