The time has come to get rid of enrage timers

[RiyahArp]

Except whatever point you thought you were making makes no sense in context because most of the things you were talking about had nothing to do with me.

He's really the only data we have. And the numbers in general are still low enough you could high ball them by a factor of 3 and have issues. Its not about raids in game, my initial point was that people are trying to make "serious" raiding only encompassing two fights, and i used ultimate as a point to show how silly the mindset is, because for someone who beats that nothing in the game before is a serious raid any more. You were just a convenient example to show the dangers of making maxed out content a requirement to talk about stuff.

[KaivaC]

He's really the only data we have. And the numbers in general are still low enough you could high ball them by a factor of 3 and have issues. Its not about raids in game, my initial point was that people are trying to make "serious" raiding only encompassing two fights, and i used ultimate as a point to show how silly the mindset is, because for someone who beats that nothing in the game before is a serious raid any more.

You say you used ultimate...but ultimate was created specific with the hardcore in mind. You quote me and point me out, but I have not once stated that one needs to try Ultimate to have this discussion. As many of us have told you many many many many many many many times, O3S/O4S are the serious raids, thus if one has cleared at least one of these fights, then hey are more qualified to actually talk about enrage timers, difficulty, and such. But no, you did typical Riyah stuff and went straight to an extreme and chose Ultimate.

And on that note, if one is complaining about difficulty and enrage timers at this point (as in, not minimum iLvl, has learned the fight) on O1S and O2S, then the problem is the not the design of the fight - it's the player themselves

You were just a convenient example to show the dangers of making maxed out content a requirement to talk about stuff.

Such an irritating thing to say. And yet you still failed to even highlight that, because I have repeatedly said O3S...that is quite literally the halfway point of the previous raid tier. Again, if one cannot make it past the halfway point of the Deltascape tier, who are they to even bring up enrage timers? Let's be honest, if you have a halfway competent PUG group, you will not really hit the hard enrage timer on most content, provided you actually know how to do your jobs and understand the mechanics. With unsynced, the enrage timer is not really a factor in practically any of the ARR/HW primals or raids (I don't have experience with Alex savage, so anybody who recently did these at 70, feel free to correct me on the point on enrage timers.

Or were you trying to intentionally irritate me?

there simply aren't enough high skill players to make any game work.

And whose fault do you think that is? Because last I checked, it's not usually raiders complaining about the skill ceiling...it's more or less midcores and casuals who complain.

[MoroMurasaki]

But no, you did typical Riyah stuff and went straight to an extreme

You're usually so calm and cool but this... this is a gem. Thank you ma'am. You've brightened an otherwise boring day. Take all my likes, they're yours. Stand up to those crybullies! It's appreciated by those of us with less patience.

[Sebazy]

But no, you did typical Riyah stuff and went straight to an extreme and chose Ultimate.

Literally the truest thing spoken in this thread.

Riyah, I think the fact that you blindly stand by your initial opinion on things no matter how much cold hard truth is put before you is a bigger reason for you to avoid threads like these than any lack of experience. There is literally no point in trying to debate with you as you're just not interested in listening to what's being said.

[RiyahArp]

Riyah, I think the fact that you blindly stand by your initial opinion on things no matter how much cold hard truth is put before you is a bigger reason for you to avoid threads like these than any lack of experience. There is literally no point in trying to debate with you as you're just not interested in listening to what's being said.

i don't see truth, i see a lot of people misunderstanding my initial points and responding to what they want to hear. I didn't say anything particularly extreme in this recent exchange. It just boils down to "hey, you can do o1s and o2s and know what enrage means too, and have an opinion on it" and "you can't really build a game on the hardcore." Its just people really hate to hear anyone challenge them without doing so to concede right after, if its unpopular.