MCH adjustement

[HaroldSaxon]

Just an FYI, NIN has always been stronger then MCH since release.

I never said otherwise

Have you ever tried playing MCH 3.0? God it was worthless.

It really wasn't: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._4_days_after/

And it's not the job or the player base that is to blame for this. It's SE that is the blame. It's still retarded that both the support dps combined can do more raid damage then double caster could do...

Ultimately, yes, I agree. But the community doesn't help matters when they complained so hard in 3.0 leading to the infamous ranged arms race.

Ow and MCH wasnt part of the meta in 4.0 because of how shit and worthless the job was and right now it's replaceable with a SMN. 4.2 is gonna make it so MCH is gonna be locked out like how BLM is being treated right now. I can go sit my main down next to the SAMs...

I specifically said raid patches. 4.05 it was meta after progression ended. Replacing a MCH with a SMN is a sub optimal in certain fights.

4.2 is not going to make MCH similar to current Black Mage. It is nowhere near that bad.

[LysLuc]

I never said otherwise

The whole reason it looks so strong is because of that dumb piercing buff, that's why it looks so strong. Yes, it can do a lot of damage in the right hands. But it's the piercing buff that is the blame for it. This is why I've suggested multiple times to change both BRD and MCH their damage type, so only RDM and DRG benefit from the piercing. Even if RDMs benefit is minimal.

It really wasn't: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._4_days_after/

Viable and feeling worthless to play are different, every job right now is viable. Even BLM or RDM in the current state. Just look at BLM and SMN right now, BLM should clearly do more raiddamage then SMN, but SMN is capable of keeping up with the damage AND bring utility. MCH got a lot more viable during Midas and actually became part of the meta between Midas and Creator.

Ultimately, yes, I agree. But the community doesn't help matters when they complained so hard in 3.0 leading to the infamous ranged arms race.

Yes, the community doesnt help with complaining as much as they're doing right now. Everybody always shouting about dps increases, and I'm just sitting here waiting for MCH to be playable for me again with my shitty ping...

I've mentioned at other locations as well that BRD and MCH should be chosen for the refresh ability and other utility not counting the attack buffs. It's just dumb how both so called support dps are part of the meta. They should be used like current RDM (Not saying that this is good either, but it would make a lot more sense then their current spot). Not going for progression? Then it wont matter if you take a BRD or MCH. Going for speed kills? Then they should be better off taking 2 casters that can keep buffing each other or the entire party then having BRD/MCH combi (If all of the players are on the same skill level that is).

Another dumb thing from SE their side is the buffs like Embolden and brotherhood. They should either make this effect magic damage done as well or change them to something else because again, it's just dumb and enforcing more physical dps. Except for contagion, how many buffs do we even have that only buff magic damage? Pretty sure that Contagion is the only buff that buffs magic damage.

4.2 is not going to make MCH similar to current Black Mage. It is nowhere near that bad.

It might not be as bad as BLM in its current state, but SMN is going to be stronger then a MCH and have a raise (Not sure why you need this in a farm group but mistakes still happen and this can still save the run if it doesnt get out of hand). So SMN will most definitly take MCHs current spot with the hypercharge nerf. RDM is gonna be taken instead of MCH for the progression raise and speed kills will probably either include SMN or BLM, depending on how good these changes will work for BLM.

The main issue I have is not specifically SE going back to the 5% hypercharge but the fact that BRD is staying 100% untouched while we're getting access to more and more stat points, which means more and more CRIT for BRD. Same with RDM, why isnt SE adjusting some of the potencies to make them a bit stronger? Or making the melee attacks scale from INT instead of STR? It's a joke how RDM is doing less damage then a BRD, which is the job with the most utility in the game.

The point I want to get across is that SE should just nerf BRD and MCH a lot but in a fair way, not how they're doing this right now since BRD is gonna get access to so much crit and just turn in to a 100% must have job, especially with a DRG or SCH and MCH is gonna be eating the dust and sitting around.

[HaroldSaxon]

The whole reason it looks so strong is because of that dumb piercing buff, that's why it looks so strong. Yes, it can do a lot of damage in the right hands. But it's the piercing buff that is the blame for it. This is why I've suggested multiple times to change both BRD and MCH their damage type, so only RDM and DRG benefit from the piercing. Even if RDMs benefit is minimal.

Agreed

Viable and feeling worthless to play are different, every job right now is viable. Even BLM or RDM in the current state. Just look at BLM and SMN right now, BLM should clearly do more raiddamage then SMN, but SMN is capable of keeping up with the damage AND bring utility. MCH got a lot more viable during Midas and actually became part of the meta between Midas and Creator.

Machinist was more than viable in 3.0. You don't get to clear o4s at minimum ilevel with a non meta class. No other composition could do that with that low gear. It just took people a while to catch on to MCH buffing 3 melee's which thankfully has since been reworked. MCH then got overbuffed in 3.2 and was part of the Meta for Midas. In 3.3 Bard got overbuffed and replaced SMN/MNK (SMN was used for a very inventive bane strat in A8S).

Regarding BLM vs SMN right now - That isn't because SMN is overpowered, it is because BLM is so weak.

Yes, the community doesnt help with complaining as much as they're doing right now. Everybody always shouting about dps increases, and I'm just sitting here waiting for MCH to be playable for me again with my shitty ping...

I think ping issues are a completely different subject to game balance. The issue is that SE do not listen to the right players (if at all).

I've mentioned at other locations as well that BRD and MCH should be chosen for the refresh ability and other utility not counting the attack buffs. It's just dumb how both so called support dps are part of the meta. They should be used like current RDM (Not saying that this is good either, but it would make a lot more sense then their current spot). Not going for progression? Then it wont matter if you take a BRD or MCH. Going for speed kills? Then they should be better off taking 2 casters that can keep buffing each other or the entire party then having BRD/MCH combi (If all of the players are on the same skill level that is).

Personally, i'd think it would be better to remove the utility from one of them, remove disembowel and then make RDM/NIN into support DPS - with low end DPS to boot, but the utility to compete with BRD.

Another dumb thing from SE their side is the buffs like Embolden and brotherhood. They should either make this effect magic damage done as well or change them to something else because again, it's just dumb and enforcing more physical dps. Except for contagion, how many buffs do we even have that only buff magic damage? Pretty sure that Contagion is the only buff that buffs magic damage.

It wouldn't be so bad if running caster comps was reliable, but I do see your point.

It might not be as bad as BLM in its current state, but SMN is going to be stronger then a MCH and have a raise (Not sure why you need this in a farm group but mistakes still happen and this can still save the run if it doesnt get out of hand). So SMN will most definitly take MCHs current spot with the hypercharge nerf. RDM is gonna be taken instead of MCH for the progression raise and speed kills will probably either include SMN or BLM, depending on how good these changes will work for BLM.

SMN and MCH are still going to be close, but MNK is going to be better than both. SMN's nerfs aren't to be scoffed at.

The main issue I have is not specifically SE going back to the 5% hypercharge but the fact that BRD is staying 100% untouched while we're getting access to more and more stat points, which means more and more CRIT for BRD. Same with RDM, why isnt SE adjusting some of the potencies to make them a bit stronger? Or making the melee attacks scale from INT instead of STR? It's a joke how RDM is doing less damage then a BRD, which is the job with the most utility in the game.

Agreed

The point I want to get across is that SE should just nerf BRD and MCH a lot but in a fair way, not how they're doing this right now since BRD is gonna get access to so much crit and just turn in to a 100% must have job, especially with a DRG or SCH and MCH is gonna be eating the dust and sitting around.

Agreed. And that includes DRG + NIN too.

[KageTokage]

I can't help but wonder where SE gets their numbers to think MCH needed a nerf, but not BRD.

I also could've swore that they said MCH was going to be getting boosted personal DPS to compensate for the hypercharge nerf, but there isn't anything in the finalized patch notes.

[Caitlyn]

I also could've swore that they said MCH was going to be getting boosted personal DPS to compensate for the hypercharge nerf, but there isn't anything in the finalized patch notes.

Fan-made mistranslation.

To be honest, that 1% Hypercharge buff with Patch 4.15 was never the right move. It just make MCH even more META. It would be better to slightly increase the potency of only one skill, but thats only my opinion. I guess SE knew they messed up and fixed it again.

I kinda believe that the new gear and its higher stats will scale much higher for MCH than any other classes. Thats why SE nerfed Hypercharge to pretend making MCH too strong like it was at the end of Heavensward. Maybe its just a personal feeling but MCH was kinda weak at the beginning of v1.0 and getting very strong until 4.2.

[Kitfox]

I can't help but wonder where SE gets their numbers to think MCH needed a nerf, but not BRD.

I also could've swore that they said MCH was going to be getting boosted personal DPS to compensate for the hypercharge nerf, but there isn't anything in the finalized patch notes.

Fan-made mistranslation.

To be honest, that 1% Hypercharge buff with Patch 4.15 was never the right move. It just make MCH even more META. It would be better to slightly increase the potency of only one skill, but thats only my opinion. I guess SE knew they messed up and fixed it again.

I kinda believe that the new gear and its higher stats will scale much higher for MCH than any other classes. Thats why SE nerfed Hypercharge to pretend making MCH too strong like it was at the end of Heavensward. Maybe its just a personal feeling but MCH was kinda weak at the beginning of v1.0 and getting very strong until 4.2.

MCH did not get nerfed. The reason why they lowered Hypercharge back to 5% is because they also fixed a bug affecting turret delay that has been present since the start of SB. This essentially increases turret damage by roughly 20-25% and totally covers the 1% HC nerf. MCH will remain as strong as before, but some of its raid damage contribution will move to personal dps instead.

The line you're looking for under Resolved issues is the following:
-An issue wherein the machinist’s Rook Autoturret and Bishop Autoturret would not attack at equal intervals.

My original bug report.

[KageTokage]

I have a hard time imagining that BRD isn't going end up significantly stronger then MCH towards the end of SB without some kind of nerf as they're effectively double dipping on crit scaling because of getting extra Repertoire procs on from it.

[AlvinOwl]

Anyway still thinking that gauge bar it takes too long to reload after overheat. 20sec can be reduced at 10sec. We are just loosing 20sec of good DPS.

[Azerhan]

Since the launch of the 4.2, I wonder if I will not pass from MCH to BRD main...
I mean, clearly not, MCH isn't a bad dps. Even with this nerf, it's still a good dps.

But all of those QoL issues are boring me.


Clipping between GCD? even at 2.47 sec, check.
Ping dependant? Too much, check.
Too punishing? Forgot Reloading even for 1 GCD, you have to delay your burst. Forgot to replace your turret because of this little debuff on your bar, check. Why not putting a "Turret icon" to the ATH?
Quick Reload isn't counted because of lag / clip and you're spamming a GCD to not loose anymore time and you go to OH.
And I don't understand why they haven't another buff like BRD. Why MCH can't have something to help healer like an Esuna (don't know the name of the BRD's one), and why BRD got a nice AOE rotation and MCH is like: pew pew until you need TP, ammo whenever it's up?

This is all of that makes me wonder about something: did they really want to have a MCH in this game?
Like DRK, RDM, MNK... They are some jobs that seems put aside, and you have some other jobs, like NIN, DRG, WAR... That are always highlighted...

[Kabooa]

Anyway still thinking that gauge bar it takes too long to reload after overheat. 20sec can be reduced at 10sec. We are just loosing 20sec of good DPS.

10. You lose 10.

You use Barrel Stabilizer to go from 0 to 50.