How do you feel about the BLM 4.2 adjustments?

[HaroldSaxon]

Uh it doesn't matter? A potency increase is always good, even if it's not enough.

Transpose is 100% not meaningless before max level; when you don't have F3/B3 avilable, you max out on MP before you can transpose back. And it's QOL, like I said, nothing more, to have a bigger window to keep Enochian up when there's no targets.

Thundercloud change keeps it up until you can get into Umbral so it isn't wasted, but fine point on the oGCD.

Does this fix BLM? No. Are these changes completely meaningless? No, especially for people leveling the class.

You don't really seem to understand the class enough to be commenting on it.

I didn't say the Potency increase didn't matter. I said you don't know what it is. But it will not be on the levels to make Black Mage's contributed raid dps competitive with other meta classes, especially given SAM's dps is being untouched.

Thundercloud change does not remove the problems of Thundercloud that is detailed in my thread and furthermore if you manage your procs correctly, you don't waste a proc in that way - only by having one overwrite a proc.

Transpose is 100% meaningless because you can already keep up Enochian 100%.

And leveling? That is irrelevant to the discussion of end game balance.

I understand the class to a decent level imo, but maybe you should play it in Savage level content someday to be commenting on it.

Transpose fix isn't meaningless, the way foul works you can transpose and mess with your cds during certain parts of fights where you are just standing there to try to get two fouls set up. So no I don't see that change being completely awful as people are making it seem. The am timer being reduced was expected and quite frankly I can think of many scenarios where its useful. (Susano ex jumping inbetween the middle during lightning is one of them). The fire and thunder procs are there to make the class easier to play so indifferent about that. Lastly fire iv potency buffed regardless of the increase its still a BUFF. I'll take what I can get at this point.

If there isn't a break in the fight, there is zero reason to use transpose in Savage/Ultimate level content. For AOE, at end game, it makes no difference, you do the same rotation.

AM timer is meaningless, i've never had to use it that often and Susano Ex jumping is already mitigated by stutterstepping, triplecast, sharpcast, swiftcast and procs. Movement is not an issue for BLM.

Fire proc changes make 0 difference whatsoever. You should never lose a firestarter proc if you play correctly. Thundercloud procs - near meaningless because the main time you lose procs is from procs being overwritten. The only change for this will be saving procs for Umbral Ice which you should do anyway if you get them in your second AF. As you said, they make the class easier to play but do nothing for the problem of the class - that its performance ceiling is poor compared to other classes.

People expecting complete overhauls or even changes to gameplay need to take a step back and look when did they ever change a class in a patch that wasn't an expansion?

Does SMN in 4.1 ring a bell?

I never said I expected complete overhauls. Hell, with SE's track record with BLM, I don't expect a thing as its clear they dislike the class.

But a potency buff that will not be above 20 potency is absolutely not enough. And some QoL changes would go a long way.

Maybe you should take a step back and look at how Black Mage has been treated for a long time. But don't worry, we'll either have 3 x Melee + 1 x Physical Ranged or 2 x Melee + 2 x Physical Ranged compositions. Again.

[Shiroe]

the fire proc timer increase is solely for mobility

the thunder proc timer increase is for mobility and means a (very) slight dps increase / QOL when timing it in the rota

AetherM is for mobility, especially when learning the fight early on a QOL (dont need to save swift / tripple so much early on, especially with procs more reliable)

happy with those tweaks..., just hope those do NOT mean the next fights have even more heavy / rng movement..

but the potency of F4 will determine if blm will continue to be crap or desirable

(the transpose change was not needed.., but cant hurt either)

[jstamos]

And leveling? That is irrelevant to the discussion of end game balance..

If only changes were made for reasons outside of end game balance!

Maybe not everything is about your level of play, in an MMO that heavily courts casuals.

This thread is called "how do you feel about the changes" - not "how do the changes effect endgame" so perhaps you should adjust your thinking to the actual topic instead of coming in and dismissing valid points just because they're not about your off-topic comments.

[Remedi]

TBH the trasponse change was something requested since SB launch, ye it's nothing much but it gives more margin of error than 1 second or so to use it.
Frankly while the changes won't change much for us atm they kinda worked on raising the skill floor which is not entirely bad.

[HaroldSaxon]

the fire proc timer increase is solely for mobility

the thunder proc timer increase is for mobility and means a (very) slight dps increase / QOL when timing it in the rota

AetherM is for mobility, especially when learning the fight early on a QOL (dont need to save swift / tripple so much early on, especially with procs more reliable)

happy with those tweaks..., just hope those do NOT mean the next fights have even more heavy / rng movement..

but the potency of F4 will determine if blm will continue to be crap or desirable

(the transpose change was not needed.., but cant hurt either)

But it does nothing for mobility. A F4 proc will always last until the end of your Astral Fire phase. You don't want to ever hold it to use in Umbral Ice for movement.

The thunder proc timer doesn't nothing for mobility because you only have specific points in your rotation where you can use it. The issue was having a proc get overwritten while waiting for that time.

You are right that the potency of F4 will determine if BLM will be crap - but do you think they would buff it above 20 potency if Samurai are remaining unchanged?

If only changes were made for reasons outside of end game balance!

Maybe not everything is about your level of play, in an MMO that heavily courts casuals.

This thread is called "how do you feel about the changes" - not "how do the changes effect endgame" so perhaps you should adjust your thinking to the actual topic instead of coming in and dismissing valid points just because they're not about your off-topic comments.

Transpose is absolutely not an issue during leveling. Mana costs in Umbral ice are more of an issue pre-70 and are also an issue pre-70. My topics aren't off topic just because you don't care about end game. I do wonder if you've ever played Black Mage at all because you clearly don't understand how the class works.

TBH the trasponse change was something requested since SB launch, ye it's nothing much but it gives more margin of error than 1 second or so to use it.
Frankly while the changes won't change much for us atm they kinda worked on raising the skill floor which is not entirely bad.

Agreed, but the skill floor isn't the issue with the class. Its the ceiling that is the issue, and my comments are on that subject which was why I labelled it meaningless.

[Grimoire-M]

Snip.

Levelling is a good place to figure out good and bad QoL before you even get to endgame. It's everyone's training mode, too, so making adjustments to make that period smoother never hurts. The Transpose change benefits that period immensely as well as making Enochian easier to maintain during invul phases like GC Omega.

Hell, it's the reason so many SMNs screamed (Myself included) when SB released. The majority of them were used to the HW rotation and SB killed it immediately. I've wound up back on SMN again but I'm still not happy with it. Purely due to three things: Numbers too high, QoL absolutely needed, and Aetherflow Lockouts.

As for BLM's other buffs, these were the only realistic changes that could be made without benefiting the 2.0 rotation more than the 3.0 one (though arguably the Aetherial Manip change benefits 2.0 more cause of no clipping). The only other options available that are neutral were increasing AF and Enochian.

[Bernkastelx]

Um smn just got some instant casts on ruin iv and ruin iii during dreadwyrm trance and mp cost reduction which was much needed on a class like that. They still haven't fixed how clunky derpmut is and using some of your pet cds in rapid succession.

[jstamos]

I do wonder if you've ever played Black Mage at all because you clearly don't understand how the class works..

You can see on my character page that BLM is one of my many 70s. I guess you're not very familiar with this game, so apologies for treating you as though you were.

Using Transpose during leveling actually helps before you get B3/F3 to up your dps. It's not ground-breaking, but it helps quite a bit, as you max MP in Umbral before you can transpose back to Astral right now. Actually is an improvement for lower-level BLM.

You called significant improvements to pre-70 play for BLM irrelevant, despite the fact that they're not. I suppose off-topic is the wrong word, but you're trying to shut down conversation using "this doesn't matter at 70" - which I never claimed it was. This is a thread discussing the changes, not the changes at 70.

[HaroldSaxon]

Levelling is a good place to figure out good and bad QoL before you even get to endgame. It's everyone's training mode, too, so making adjustments to make that period smoother never hurts. The Transpose change benefits that period immensely as well as making Enochian easier to maintain during invul phases like GC Omega.

Hell, it's the reason so many SMNs screamed (Myself included) when SB released. The majority of them were used to the HW rotation and SB killed it immediately. I've wound up back on SMN again but I'm still not happy with it. Purely due to three things: Numbers too high, QoL absolutely needed, and Aetherflow Lockouts.

As for BLM's other buffs, these were the only realistic changes that could be made without benefiting the 2.0 rotation more than the 3.0 one (though arguably the Aetherial Manip change benefits 2.0 more cause of no clipping). The only other options available that are neutral were increasing AF and Enochian.

I don't disagree - its why a lot of BLM's screamed when SB released too. My point however is that stuff like that is something you can live with (and transpose is not an issue at that point). Stuff that affects end game is more important in my opinion and is the major reason why Black Mage is the worst DPS.

There were plenty of changes that could be done. Blizzard IV needed more power to it. Fire 4 needs a larger buff than the one it will get (I would be very surprised if its more than 20 given that SAM isn't receiving changes). Umbral Ice mana costs need changing. Enochian needs reworking. Thundercloud procs need a stacking mechanic. All of this has been detailed in some of the threads on BLM on the front page of this forum section.

Um smn just got some instant casts on ruin iv and ruin iii during dreadwyrm trance and mp cost reduction which was much needed on a class like that. They still haven't fixed how clunky derpmut is and using some of your pet cds in rapid succession.

SMN had several skills that either had major changes or were completely reworked. That was what Black Mages were asking for. I can put up with the clunkiness of current Black Mage if its performance wasn't the second worst for Raid DPS.

You can see on my character page that BLM is one of my many 70s. I guess you're not very familiar with this game, so apologies for treating you as though you were.

Using Transpose during leveling actually helps before you get B3/F3 to up your dps. It's not ground-breaking, but it helps quite a bit, as you max MP in Umbral before you can transpose back to Astral right now. Actually is an improvement for lower-level BLM.

You called significant improvements to pre-70 play for BLM irrelevant, despite the fact that they're not. I suppose off-topic is the wrong word, but you're trying to shut down conversation using "this doesn't matter at 70" - which I never claimed it was. This is a thread discussing the changes, not the changes at 70.

Just because you are level 70 doesn't mean you have paid attention while levelling or that you know what you are doing. Do you have any experience with endgame raiding.

You don't need a reduction in the transpose timer when levelling because your fire phase is not short enough so that you are waiting to use it. It does not affect the low level rotation.

I said they are irrelevant to the problems of the class. Please read my posts next time. And every other thread on the front page about Black Mages while you are at it. If you want to complain about low level changes, take a look at mana costs in Umbral Ice - you've got Black Mage to level 70 so surely you know about that one, right? Especially before you get Foul.

[zuzu-bq]

To those that are defending that the QoL is justified because it helps people leveling the job: SE stated that balancement of the jobs outside of levelcap wouldn't be priority. They Advertised these BLM changes for a while and put them as the priority of that section of the Live Letter. Which means they think this is here to help people at level cap. Which is mostly ridiculous, because these changes barely change anything about the job's fluidity.