Black Mage

[Kabooa]

Given that Refulgent Arrow now exists (finally), I'd say Barrage is perfectly safe from " the chopping block", but only time will tell.

Besides, you COULD use a double-potency for Thundercloud or even Fire IV if it was an emergency, or whatever, so the same logic applies.

I suppose this depends on the cooldown timer. If it was 60 seconds, outside the opener you'd pretty much only use it for Foul. It was 90 seconds you'd only use it for foul. 120, 150, etc. You'd need minus sub 6 second TCloud for it to break even and that's RNG based. It'd need to be something wonky like multiples of 40, 50, or 70 to not get relegated into "Just use it for Foul" because you can bank a Foul specifically for it and not lose out.

Compared to the other abilities, you can't 'Bank' those. You have to use the Sen before generating more or its a loss, depending where you fall along your combo for Life Surge (If you just used Full Thrust for example) you probably won't want to spend 24 seconds just to ensure it's on Full Thrust, and you probably don't want to risk losing a Refulgent proc via overwrite or timer to save it for Barrage nor bank on another happening soon when Empyreal Arrow isn't the worst use of it.

[Remedi]

Doesn't need to be double int, can just be something else, point is we need to hit HARD and atm we are not better than all the other jobs, all the discussions about changing other parts of the job is fine and all but at the end of the day we lack in firepower fropm ourselves, we don't have any form of burst unless maybe timing exactly 2 fouls back to back which is meh imho and honestly not that good either and ofc we don't bring anything else to the group in the form of support and there no caster support at all.

As such we need to compensate, probably they'll adjust our cast timers and maybe the potency, probably they'll go for the overboosting route to persuade ppl into bringing BLM in the groups, but if the idea for the class is to deal high dmg then they need to give us the possibility to do so.

Also about Single player games: Balance can be wonky in there too btw in FFX magic is useless because of how broken the celestial weapons truly are for example

[TheFanMark]

Ok so your point is valid. Balance is always an issue, in every MMO, but as for enjoying, in terms of what, if you like the way it plays and it can get you through, then enjoy it, but as for High Level Content, there is always gonna be a class that plays better in said content. I mean to me that's a challenge to my skill. But I don't speak for every1. I mean if I can get a chance, and it gets done, then I'm set. But they are trying, we have to give em credit. They blew my mind with RDM. Even though I cant out dps shit I like the way it plays. and as for High Level Content, theres always new and inventive ways to play a job, in said content, I mean ultimately it boils down to ok its hard for this job but not this job, if we succeed, we succeed, if not and it boils down to that 1 job, then adjust but dang. Its like the game is slowly getting worse due to the ppl not the content

[Kabooa]

I mean to me that's a challenge to my skill.

I'm going to stop you right here.

You cannot outskill variance, sloppy party members, or raw toolkit advantages in high end content. You can't. You can be the best black mage in the game but if the healers run OOM, the tanks slip a cooldown, or the other DPS fail a mechanic, you die. Period. That's a lose. You lost. You can't scrape them up and you can barely cover the cost of it.

The inequities that get discussed are primarily between damage and toolkits, and as it stands, Black Mage is passable for damage (Re: We can pass every DPS check in this game, no synergy party buff burst windows required) but completely lacks the recovery / aid/ support options that other classes that do as much damage bring.

This may come as a surprise to you, but many of us still play Black Mage on our own time, but when push comes to shove, some of us switch over because it literally makes no sense to stay as what is essentially an obsolete class given encounter design. Playing the Uncle Thaum's Cabin card isn't going to improve this.

[Llugen]

Also about Single player games: Balance can be wonky in there too btw in FFX magic is useless because of how broken the celestial weapons truly are for example

Yes but you're not shunning other actual people out of joining groups is my point. It's just you the single player figuring out the most effective tactic available (ha, see what I did there), so who even cares if it's balanced perfectly or not?

[Ceallach]

If anything should be instant cast at this point it should be Fire/Blizzard, which I'd suggest under Enhanced Enochian. Would make sense that at level 70 we are finally powerful enough to use our BASE SPELLS at maximum efficiency, and then if you had to move for an extended period without Triplecast you could keep up your rotation at the same MP cost, and the job would play similar to 2.0 BLM (Fire I and Firestarter), but it would still be STRONGER to stand still/save movement cooldowns for Fire IV. This would close the punishment gap pretty meaningfully, I feel.

See, this I'd be perfectly fine with.

[Remedi]

Yes but you're not shunning other actual people out of joining groups is my point. It's just you the single player figuring out the most effective tactic available (ha, see what I did there), so who even cares if it's balanced perfectly or not?

Ye, mostly a rant about how broken balance in SP can actually be

[Shiroe]

Why can't we just game in peace and let SE do what they do. Every change made is from some sort of complaint or gripe and ppl neglect to recognize this. OMG BLM his hard buff SMN. OMG now SMN out does BLM, nerf smn. Nerf BRD they hit hard, more support less dps, omg we hit so soft, more buttons more dps. Ppl will never be satisfied

its not about smn doing better than blm, but more about a class with plenty of utility out doing a class with zero utility... and blm being an absolute pain in some end raids due to its sh1t mobility (read the very first / opening post of this thread again)

[EllieShadeflare]

I COULD see Temper being a support skill (if Black Mage even needs one) as a neat throwback to FFI, but only as a 5% damage boost... Or some kind of Black Resonance (name from Bravely Default which, let's admit it, may as well be a Final Fantasy considering it WAS supposed to be Final Fantasy: 4 Heroes of Light's sequel) buff that'd work similar to Brotherhood.

[Llugen]

@Shiroe who is @Fan, this is semi-related, but Sfia (the author of this thread's OP) said these in the thread with regards to raise in particular, but really defensive utility:

I can understand the viewpoint that lore-wise, BLM should NOT get a raise. From a balance standpoint however, it requires it, OR something of equivalent value as a defensive utility. And because raise is so powerful a tool, any ability with a benefit that matches it would be very difficult to implement and balance.

There are always ways to work around that issue, put it on a timed cooldown and make it instant for example.
It depends what you're looking for. In speedruns defensive utility loses a lot of its value but very few groups operate at a level where that makes a big difference, whereas every raiding team WILL do progression - where defensive utility shines the brightest.
In my opinion, both offense and defense need to be increased. Not increasing defensive utility would lead to issues of its damage needing to be exorbitantly high (read: overpowered) to be in a form worth playing.

This is to reinforce what several of us have been trying to allude to for a while now: that there is no such thing as "raw damage" in FFXIV, particularly in the caster role. So hopefully 4.2 will see better mobility/damage and then later we can hope for/expect greater utility (I'm not getting my hopes up for defensive utility for 4.2).