Pre-pull regen?

[Sebazy]

Actually it does. How else does the tank compensate in this situation?

Crein was referring to savage there =(

Back on topic though, the devil is in the details really. Please remember that as far as trash goes, I'm most certainly not suggesting that anyone throws a regen before the tank has even started pulling. That's just a nuisance no matter how well you position yourself. We are both in agreement here.

However, what I object to is the whole 'It's bad! Don't even think about trying it!' mentality. That's just not an approach I think anyone should ever be advised to take for anything beyond standing in the fire.

If you can get the timing down, you can get away with mid pull regens with little risk (Of all my logs, recordings and roulettes in 4.1, I've got one occasion where I messed up and the tank actually noticed and needed to adjust, and I've got a lot of logs!).

The best example of this is Skalla's second trash pull with the Salt Swallow+Larva, it's a very substantial pull with 13 mobs in total but actually doesn't hit that hard at all. There's no cleaves, there's little aoe and pushing the boundaries of what's acceptable or even wise here can net very substantial DPS gains if you are so inclined.

I've not got a video clip of how it works with a lob/tomahawking tank, but if the tank is tagging packs with flash or such then it makes things super easy and I've got a replay of that uploading right now which I'll link when I get back home. Are the results worth it? I certainly think so, but I'll let you be the judge of that.

Please remember, I'm not trying to say 'throw a regen before your tank's even started moving', I'm simply saying, keep an open mind, make your own decision and don't be afraid to push the boundaries of what's considered acceptable in the pursuit of improvement. Playing within a rigid and suffocating ruleset hampers your performance and is just flat out boring IMHO. At the end of the day, it's a game, if you over step the mark, apologise, adjust and carry on. Very few people will care.

*Edit*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddDzccpPLro

As promised. Note the regen at 12 seconds in, halfway through the pull and long before everything was settled and in position. And yes, whilst I was on TS with them as we were finishing up after Omega, I do pretty much the exact something with pug tanks as well. The universe didn't explode, I didn't pull anything away from the pack and no kittens got hit by stray Fire IVs. What I gained was the ability to spend the entire time full out DPSing thus even outdoing the BLM. #worth in my eyes.

[Gemina]

As promised. Note the regen at 12 seconds in, halfway through the pull and long before everything was settled and in position. And yes, whilst I was on TS with them as we were finishing up after Omega, I do pretty much the exact something with pug tanks as well. The universe didn't explode, I didn't pull anything away from the pack and no kittens got hit by stray Fire IVs. What I gained was the ability to spend the entire time full out DPSing thus even outdoing the BLM. #worth in my eyes.

What am I supposed to take from the video? That pre-regens are okie-dokey?

Ok. But you never cleansed the tank. The BLM is on cloud-nine. The tank is desperately spamming Flash and CoS. Basically, you guys are succeeding despite less than optimal, even average play, and this is supposed to prove that preemptive regen is a good thing? But kudos to you, I am quite sure your fflogs are higher than everyone in that group. This couldn't mean that you are playing than anything other than optimal, correct? However, how would you rate your group's performance as a whole? And how do you think they would fare in content less forgiving?

I wonder... How do you do when shit actually hits the fan? Based off of your video, I wouldn't be so confident.

[Sebazy]

What am I supposed to take from the video? That pre-regens are okie-dokey?

Ok. But you never cleansed the tank. The BLM is on cloud-nine. The tank is desperately spamming Flash and CoS. Basically, you guys are succeeding despite less than optimal, even average play, and this is supposed to prove that preemptive regen is a good thing? But kudos to you, I am quite sure your fflogs are higher than everyone in that group. This couldn't mean that you are playing than anything other than optimal, correct? However, how would you rate your group's performance as a whole? And how do you think they would fare in content less forgiving?.

No, as I've stated (And Vanille stated right above your post), keep an open mind and never say never. Hitting a regen before everything is planted is frequently absolutely fine.

On the poison dot thing, do you realise how little damage that dot actually does? (Spoiler, amusingly little, it's either bugged or a troll ability frankly) I don't cleanse it because it's just not worth the GCD to do so.

I'll agree the blm was caught napping, but at the end of the day, he did 5.4k dps across the run which is highly respectable and miles above the 'average' (And well above what I did across the entirety of the run ofc). The Nin was at ~4.8k or thereabouts, also more than me (3.4k) for reference, this was his second run ever in the dungeon and as a weekly raid logger, he did absolutely fine, well above average right out of the gate with plenty more room for improvement once he figured out decent timings for his CDs. Not really sure what Coro was doing, I'd assume he was being lazy since he was on PLD and sitting pretty in Shield Oath. I've never really seen PLDs do much more than the numbers he did, but frankly Warriors are so far ahead of everyone else in the current expert dungeons that it's fairly irrelevant anyway.

My personal performance on that pull was reasonably close to 'optimal' IMHO, frankly I could have either not used Tetra or not bothered with the second regen until we were about to tag the boss. I also wasted a few GCDs on the pull that I could have used to get Aeros up on the larve whilst we were still moving as well. More importantly tho, I didn't step on anyone's toes or cost the group any DPS in doing what I did. I'd have done precisely the same thing with a warrior in deliverance frankly. Even if I pulled hate off them towards the end of that trash pack: A)It doesn't matter because it doesn't hit hard enough and B)In some regards, it's a benefit because I'm absorbing a little of the damage from the tank with my own HP pool meaning I'm even less likely to need to top anyone for the boss. Obviously, I'm already 'optimising' to try hard standards as it is, beyond that is getting into silly territory for something that doesn't have rankings to chase or such.

*edit*

I'd legitimately be interested in knowing what you think I could have done better or even more optimally there? It'd make for a good alternative PoV I think.

If you want an easier reference to go by, that entire Skalla run was just under 15 minutes long. That's a pretty decent time by my thinking, my DF average is more around 20 minutes. If 15 minutes is your average then blimey.

I wonder... How do you do when shit actually hits the fan? Based off of your video, I wouldn't be so confident.

Challenge accepted!

Gordias: WHM Healing all-stars - 4th in the world
Midas: WHM Healing all-stars - 24th in the world (Had a fairly nasty house fire that halted my progression in early A8)
Creator: AST Healing all-stars - 2nd in the world
Omega: WHM Healing all-stars - 82nd in the world, my group made me DPS more =(

As the numbers above suggest, I'm actually a lot more reserved in raids, erring on the side of being much too cautious. My high HPS rankings are actually kind of a booby prize, hardly something to be proud of. It just means that I'm pushing my co-healer to DPS more and optimising less than I could be due to not being willing to trust the rest of the group to not make mistakes.

An old replay of A12S that I uploaded previously if you're interested in how I play in raids: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLGUMzl2cV0

As you've probably noticed, dungeons and 24 mans are my cheeky little DPS outlet. Why? Because quite frankly, bar maybe 2 pulls in the entire expansion (First pull in bardams, double apes+dogs+mech in Ala Mhigo), it's actually pretty hard to fail enough to cause a wipe outside of ex/savage. Most of the time, it's somewhere between irrelevant and easily recovered.