Pre-pull regen?

[Linx0r]

Meh. For dungeons, it's not the end of the world if the healer Med2's or Regen's before pull. If the tank is any good, they will adjust. It's best practice to NOT do it....wait for the tank to get a few hits in then go nuts if you want.
For raids/primals: it's up to your group. ask them

[SieyaM]

I really try to avoid even having regen left on the tank after a group is finished. In regular content it usually just leads to the healer being knocked around a bit and the tank trying to gather all the mobs for longer. With Tetra being oGCD its easy to throw that out at the end of a pull to get the tanks health back to a reasonable amount before applying your regen. I also have been trying to see how well Benison will work as a pre-pull shield. It's ok but never lasts the entire length of the pull, but it does get the tank usually through the first group without taking any damage. I don't know if that's a good WHM thing to do but it has been working out for me pretty well.

[TaleraRistain]

I use Benison as a pre-pull shield whenever I have it available. It's no Stoneskin, but it's something. It can sometimes mean I don't need to use Tetra when they pull is complete, and can just whip off a quick Cure II to get the tank back in good standing. I use it because I'll get the lily back in no time so I can use it for things I really want when we're working on the trash, like the reduction on CD of Tetra or Assize.

I also try to avoid having regen up at the end. I'll go over to popping a couple Cure II's as we finish instead of re-applying regen so it won't go into the next pull. I know tanks can learn to adjust, as we were expected to learn to adjust for people not dodging. But I don't see why I need to put strain on my party by not doing what I can to avoid issues.

[Gemina]

I can't think of any situation where a pre pull Regen is optimal. Not from any of the content I participated in anyway.

Let me put it this way. If tanks had the ability to Regen themselves, it would be their go to ability during pulls. When the healer does it, the tank has to compensate. If he's good, he'll take the hate off of you without too much risk to you, but if you have to heal yourself during a pull, something's not right.

[Sebazy]

I can't think of any situation where a pre pull Regen is optimal. Not from any of the content I participated in anyway.

Just to clarify here, for both raids and dungeon bosses, pre pull Regen is 100% 'optimal' from the perspective of trying to maximise your DPS. If the tank is pulling with their face rather than a shield lob or such then that's on them. But for a white mage, being able to spend your entire PoM duration right off the bat throwing nothing but stones is a very significant gain. Not to mention, with a pre pull regen, dots are applied and I'm throwing rocks from the second GCD of the encounter, if I wait until the tank has tapped the boss I'm not throwing any stones until the 4th GCD at best.

For trash, again, it pains me to say it, but from my very extensive testing, a mid pull regen is 'optimal' in terms of DPS potential. However, that's absolutely reliant on your tank being able to cope with the agro. Some can, some can't and this is absolutely critical to work around.

I'll openly admit I'm very cautious about early regens at least for the first pull or two whilst I get a feel for what the tank is doing, however I'll absolutely be dotting things up whilst we are moving and I'd expect any decent DPS to be doing the same, the agro from that is a little more delayed giving the tank a chance to tag stuff first.

[Gemina]

Just to clarify here, for both raids and dungeon bosses, pre pull Regen is 100% 'optimal' from the perspective of trying to maximise your DPS.

I stopped reading right here.

[Sebazy]

I stopped reading right here.

Why so? Because you aren't concerned with your DPS? If that's the case, isn't that a bit of a miss-use of the word 'optimal'?

[Gemina]

Why so? Because you aren't concerned with your DPS? If that's the case, isn't that a bit of a miss-use of the word 'optimal'?

Not at all. I stopped reading because maximizing dps isn't even in the realm of what this thread addresses. Posts like yours, is what veers a thread off topic, and into another healer dps debate. Sorry, not taking that bait.

Basically, what I'm saying is I can't think of any situation where it is optimal for the healer to grab initial hate, because that is exactly what Regen does. Your tank will always have to compensate for this, and work just a little harder, even if just a shoulder shrug to get the hate off of you. Sure, your dps goes up, and the tank's goes down.

When I speak optimal, I'm talking the entire party. Not just my own.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Im honestly surprised there isnt a "self regen" tank. (would be better than PLDs current self heal)

[RopeDrink]

I still don't see the point of them outside of raiding. In dungeons it's not uncommon to get tanks going for tri-pulls, in which case they're running from the start to pretty much the first-boss doorstep (unless obstacles prevent this). If they're even considering this, they either have faith in the Healer or know their gear/limits (preferably both), to which I'll wait till they're rounded up (casting AeroIII's along the way), Asylum/SC-Holy, re-apply AeroIII to the entire pack if needed, then rotate between top-ups and damage depending on how squishy they are.

Pre-pull regen may tick off some of the auto-attacks but at the cost of something possibly breaking expectations eventually, be it due to tank negligence (some would tell you off for pre-pull regen -- after all, it's historically a no-no, no matter how 'right' it may be in other circumstances) and others probably just won't expect it. Bit different if people communicate or already know eachother, not so much with randoms in DF who go from A to B entirely on assumptions.

I'd much rather a 100% guarantee the tank doesn't have to deviate (because I can cover anyway) over taking the risk for the sake of not having to spend one GCD later on. The only time I even use Tetra is when (unrelated) DPS are eating mechanics like plebs or a) the Tank is pre-pulling and I'm intentionally waiting for them to get comfortable or b) as a 'just in-case' when I'm DPS'ing during said mega-pulls.