My Eureka Concept

[Sandpark]

Seeing how a relic quest is done in phases. You will leave someone behind and as Yoshi has previously said the Relic is meant to be a grind and for those who aren't raiders. Which is also why the relic is never BiS very long.

But even if you tune Hard Mode to i330 then when 4.3 releases gear will be i350-i370 and now it will be steamroll easy and also lose it's favor because there will be better weapons available.

At which point you can release an additional mode, or additional adapters, or just leave it as is, but now make it more viable to go against the more difficult packs, or to pursue further completion, etc., etc.

Not all mob packs are going to have the same difficulty, nor will there be just one bar for completion -- all or nothing. You can do more in the given time with increased gear, but that doesn't necessarily make things steamroll when you're thereby encountering increasingly more difficult mobs.

This whole ultimatum thing you're suggesting isn't really an ultimatum.

I don't want phases. If you have phases then it will be just like other content with cooldowns/lockouts. Content designed for casuals has to be easy to jump in or out. That means no large group made default, time commitment is decided by the player and stuff has to be always accessible. I also don't want relic to be an ilevel anything, because that implies Eureka content will become obsolete in stages.

Additional modes if you mean normal, hard, extreme, savage is not conducive to casual grind because that implies that there will be global game system,in place to segregate players. What makes it more viable to go against more difficult packs? Gear and stats, as those variables raise, they begin to outpace enemies, leading to the ability to engage stronger and stronger enemies.

But are those enemies dealt with differently once your powers outpace theirs? Not really so far, you defeat packs in the same way but with stronger skills. Enter Sastasha then enter Doma Castle, you are either fighting small packs with single target or aoeing large packs in both scenarios. For bosses in most dungeons you avoid the red, and choose to ignore adds or kill them, while dealing with a finite amount of unique mechanics.

So how do you create a special zone that allows all those things, is accessible to casuals but still retain difficulty or structure for difficult encounters?

What I want Eureka to be like:

1. Character Perpetual Progression- The ability to get stronger and stronger
2. Enemy Perpetual Difficulty- Different levels and stats for enemies, some killable for someone fresh,, and the deeper you venture they get stronger and stronger
3. Zones always max level- Whatever the current max level is in the game, this zone is always that. 70 for SB, 80 for next xpac, 90 for next xpac.
4. Claim system- There can be nothing semi open world and difficult, if players are allowed to outnumber enemies.
5. Advanced Enemy aggro- They aggro by sight, sound, true sight, true sound, low health, magic cast,etc.
6. Persistent enemy links- Enemies will link with no prejudice, if you aggro or pull a pack violating the aggro parameters.
7. Enemies hit harder than ever- Grouping will allow overcoming larger groups to an extent, but it should be very easy to become overwhelmed if enough enemies link or aggro regardless of party composition.
8. Enemies don't deaggro or reset- If you aggro or engage, they will engage you until you leave the zone, kill them, or get killed and their HP will not reset.

I read Eureka was supposed to have a quality of feeling similar to older generation mmorpgs. Well hopefully, the one they draw the most inspiration from is their own. Some of the things I listed apply to the open world for the most part, they did mention trials or raids within the Eureka content. I just hope that soloing can make constant progress, even if it is slower than grouping. I hope that progression is perpetual and self contained within Eureka. If they want you to be able to pull rewards out into the rest of the game, then say for a weapon or gear, they just kick it up to a really high ilevel when you bring it out of Eureka. I hope that there are no lockouts barring not being max level, so I have something to constantly progress towards while they are in between patches or expansion if I want a reason to play the game for hours and hours.

It's great SE does want you to take breaks from the game. But some of us are adults, if we wanna play the game lots, give us a reason to, don't deny us.

[KaldeaSahaline]

Your version of Eureka is like a Diadem, It only stays relevant with the current iLvl and then loses favor. Which is why you can barely get a Diadem run today and barely could get one after 3.3 released. Getting 8 people to go into Diadem even for gathering is a chore. The purpose behind the relic is to make it accessible for everyone at the cost of it being a grind. You can make it 1 Star, 2 Star but what is the incentive for the people who are on 2 star to go back and do the 1 star? You can look at any of the raids through HW and finding a A1-4 party in 3.5 was nigh impossible. 60-minute+ wait time more often than not and is a clear example of how even a Star system would devolve into.The FFXIV playerbase wants things quickly and even though you could have it be a catch up with gear they will still be a burden on the party who wants to clear it as fast as possible (Grind remember).

Inaccurate. I stated that it would scale with the game and not be left behind.

You also completely misunderstood the concept of the star difficulty rating. It isn't something you "progress through and leave" like relic steps, it's designed for players of differing skill levels. It means that as a skilled player one doesn't need to do 1 star, they can do 3 or 4 star, have more fun, and still be progressing their relic.

It means that a player like you (please do not take offense) would likely stick with DF and 1 star to grind out your relic. Quite literally nothing would change for you. You are the majority and plenty of people would be queuing to empower their relic weapon.

The difference is I don't have to do that (like I do with current relics). I can create a party with some friends and pugs and we can jump in and tackle 3 star and have a more engaging experience based on our skill level, while still working on our relic weapon without being forced into what we generally consider mindless content.

I don't want phases. If you have phases then it will be just like other content with cooldowns/lockouts. Content designed for casuals has to be easy to jump in or out. That means no large group made default, time commitment is decided by the player and stuff has to be always accessible. I also don't want relic to be an ilevel anything, because that implies Eureka content will become obsolete in stages.

I know you didn't respond to me specifically, but I wanted to respond to this. If you haven't read the OP please do.

There are no phases. The 1 star difficulty option is very jump in and jump out, the experience would be like a randomized dungeon tileset and enemy selection. The difficulty would be akin to doing a brand new dungeon (so say Skalla), at not max ilvl. Still trivially easy, but you can't be AFK.

My Eureka design scales indefinitely. They retune based on expected ilvl each patch and can easily scale it up to whatever is current max level.

What I want Eureka to be like:

1. Character Perpetual Progression- The ability to get stronger and stronger
2. Enemy Perpetual Difficulty- Different levels and stats for enemies, some killable for someone fresh,, and the deeper you venture they get stronger and stronger
3. Zones always max level- Whatever the current max level is in the game, this zone is always that. 70 for SB, 80 for next xpac, 90 for next xpac.
4. Claim system- There can be nothing semi open world and difficult, if players are allowed to outnumber enemies.
5. Advanced Enemy aggro- They aggro by sight, sound, true sight, true sound, low health, magic cast,etc.
6. Persistent enemy links- Enemies will link with no prejudice, if you aggro or pull a pack violating the aggro parameters.
7. Enemies hit harder than ever- Grouping will allow overcoming larger groups to an extent, but it should be very easy to become overwhelmed if enough enemies link or aggro regardless of party composition.
8. Enemies don't deaggro or reset- If you aggro or engage, they will engage you until you leave the zone, kill them, or get killed and their HP will not reset.

Your list is very similar to mine (mine is instanced though and yours is open world) and mine focuses more on the enemy AI and how you have to approach them. Yours is more solo friendly, whereas I specifically chose 8 man to ensure good breadth of mechanics.

I said it above, but definitely give the OP a good read and throw some insight.

[Wintersandman]

Inaccurate. I stated that it would scale with the game and not be left behind.

You also completely misunderstood the concept of the star difficulty rating. It isn't something you "progress through and leave" like relic steps, it's designed for players of differing skill levels. It means that as a skilled player one doesn't need to do 1 star, they can do 3 or 4 star, have more fun, and still be progressing their relic.

It means that a player like you (please do not take offense) would likely stick with DF and 1 star to grind out your relic. Quite literally nothing would change for you. You are the majority and plenty of people would be queuing to empower their relic weapon.

But the challenge still is gating. PotD is a perfect example of what you're talking about. DF floors 1-100 but have to do a premade to go beyond. So for someone like me PotD has become a snooze fest. I can netflix and chill while running it, it is so brain dead. That is what a 1 star would devolve into. Players would eventually abandon the content once they get too a point they steamroll the rest.

Just because I don't raid doesn't mean I don't keep current on my ilvl and I know I am not the only one. So as the patch grows no matter what happens someone will be left out following your model. The only way to ensure it would stay that way is to follow the PotD model where gear inside is independent of gear outside.

[Shurrikhan]

But the challenge still is gating. PotD is a perfect example of what you're talking about. DF floors 1-100 but have to do a premade to go beyond. So for someone like me PotD has become a snooze fest. I can netflix and chill while running it, it is so brain dead. That is what a 1 star would devolve into. Players would eventually abandon the content once they get too a point they steamroll the rest.

Just because I don't raid doesn't mean I don't keep current on my ilvl and I know I am not the only one. So as the patch grows no matter what happens someone will be left out following your model. The only way to ensure it would stay that way is to follow the PotD model where gear inside is independent of gear outside.

But that model hasn't solved anything in terms of actual difficulty. Scalars do. Choice do. Creating an isolate progression path does not (1) create a common starting point, (2) mend rifts in difficulty, nor (3) mend conflicts of goal or difficulty pursued.

The only thing it does is disregard external gear — but there are little to no actual benefits inherent in that.

Yes, people need to feel that they can be challenged as to their own preferences by some given content or piece thereof in a way that does not invite social conflict, but the shrinkage of a 10-20 ilvl gap is not going to affect that in any noticeable manner. Despite your suggestion towards such, you yourself mentioned that PotD floors 1-100 remained steamroll content. We might then chalk that up to progression not resetting after each run, but the fact of the matter is it did not solve any of the things you appear to be worried about. So why it be a solution to them?

By all means, have a unique progression system, but if so have it on its own merits.

What advantage could, say, skill augmentation to bring in a more salivation-worthy depiction of our jobs that flows from the typical gameplay but offers something new atop the typical meta, bring to the Eureka experience (as that is the only place you'd be seeing it), and only thus the whole of the game?

[Wintersandman]

The only thing it does is disregard external gear — but there are little to no actual benefits inherent in that.

When you have a mode that is completely void of gear progression the rest relies upon skill. PotD did work for a short time as there was a cap on the gear progressions (30/30) when first released. But you have 99/99 in 40-50 you notice a difference than when it was 30/30. This was a mistake by design.

You could have gear that ranks up but doesn't affect stats/damage or health. Therefore the further you progress the greater the challenge and more dependent on skill. That would be the only way to not exclude upcoming players as well as experienced players.

[KaldeaSahaline]

But the challenge still is gating. PotD is a perfect example of what you're talking about. DF floors 1-100 but have to do a premade to go beyond. So for someone like me PotD has become a snooze fest. I can netflix and chill while running it, it is so brain dead. That is what a 1 star would devolve into. Players would eventually abandon the content once they get too a point they steamroll the rest.

That is the exact intent of 1 star. For players like you who by your own admission you stick to only story/casual (I hate that word in context of difficulty based discussion) types of content and like to feel yourselves become more powerful over time making it easier to clear.

It makes no sense why now you're concerned with it being too easy? Why aren't you concerned that the rest of the game currently follows this paradigm? Why is it only an issue here? You make the claim that players will abandon it because its faceroll, but people didn't abandon the all content below EX's despite those all being faceroll.

Just because I don't raid doesn't mean I don't keep current on my ilvl and I know I am not the only one. So as the patch grows no matter what happens someone will be left out following your model. The only way to ensure it would stay that way is to follow the PotD model where gear inside is independent of gear outside.

Who will be left out in my model? Specific examples with timeframes/ilvl will be helpful in orchestrating your point.

Ok I would like to give some additional enemy tendencies. I realize some of these are in game. But most are in boss battles. I want to see these applied to open world mobs as well. Now when picking up adds, they are usually dealt with in the same way, tank grabs everything and players mow them down. If packs came with different types, the same strategy would not always work the same.

Are these in reference to YOUR design or MINE?

Some feedback:

Reflectors and Planars while different have the same resolution, thus you can safely remove one or the other. If it were up to me though I'd simply combine the two into 1 trait. Have them reflect damage while in X form to Y based damage and have it transition over the fight like your Planar trait.

I quite like the concept of a few of the aura's. Some of the others I think are better served as actual mechanics on individual mob types (i.e. any winged mob, is automatically granted Flyer/Leaper (fly up and crash down).

I vehemently disagree with the durability wear concept trait.

This kind of variance makes the game kind of like a basketball game. You call a play and sometimes you have to change the play due to an audible. Call the right play at the right time, but the same play will not always work. A zerg to me is when you can ignore plays called by the enemy and sarge the battlefield. You cannot sarge what you cannot ignore. And as players who struggle with harder content would say is that a mechanic by itself is not that hard, it's when you have to remember a bunch of them in sequence.

Well what if that sequence altered from pack to pack, and each pack had multiple tendencies? Zerg is not a thing anymore in my books at that point. Up the situational awareness.

Agreed this was my intent as well when I designed this content.

[Wintersandman]

That is the exact intent of 1 star. For players like you who by your own admission you stick to only story/casual (I hate that word in context of difficulty based discussion) types of content and like to feel yourselves become more powerful over time making it easier to clear.

It makes no sense why now you're concerned with it being too easy? Why aren't you concerned that the rest of the game currently follows this paradigm? Why is it only an issue here? You make the claim that players will abandon it because its faceroll, but people didn't abandon the all content below EX's despite those all being faceroll.

You understood PotD 1-100 being a snoozefest as a good thing. For me it is not. Just because I don't static or PF doesn't mean I don't like a challenge. Which is why I also said to keep it light party. It is a lot easier to get 3 other people together than 7 other people. But even finding 3 other people to potd floors 101-200 is still challenging. The people who have done it don't want to go back.

Every other Extreme, Trial, Dungeon, Etc. is on a roulette. The reason why I am making about a big deal of it here is because Diadem is the best example. It is mostly abandoned. This is the 2nd time it has been left to sit there because it is gated behind full party.

In regards to your other comment about people getting left out. 3.5 it was nigh impossible to find an A1-A4 party. So people trying to catch up in story and in gear had a difficulty finding a party. I have already stated this multiple times.

If anything I would like Eureka to be gear agnostic similar to PvP. You go in with base stats and the only differentiator is skill.

[Sandpark]

I quite like the concept of a few of the aura's. Some of the others I think are better served as actual mechanics on individual mob types (i.e. any winged mob, is automatically granted Flyer/Leaper (fly up and crash down).

I vehemently disagree with the durability wear concept trait.

The planar or reflector comparison are different. If you hit them during wrong phase, there is some boon to the enemy or consequence for you hitting during the wrong time with the wrong skills or from the wrong angle.

The idea is randomized skillsets. So an imp could be 1-20 different tendencies or a group of imps could be a mix of different tendencies. This makes fighting packs always randomized.

For flyers, I think auto fly up/crash down would be too one dimensional. Have some swoop, some peck, some dive, all with unique effect.

Think of that wearing down of weapons due to fighting something really dense and hard. Like hitting solid steel mountain with wooden sticks. Breath of the Wild played around with this concept but it was annoying there because weapons broke too easily and this applied to most weapons.

This would only be for certain encounters, where you have to decide "Should I beat these to a pulp and go through mutliple weapons?,Should I sneak past them? Should I kill with burst magic? We have to synergize hits against this or only hit it during certain phases or it going to wreck havoc on the enounter due to broken weapons!"