My Eureka Concept

[Shouko]

The duty would be designed for 8 players. 2 Tanks, 2 Healers, and 4 DPS. The party is encouraged to split up or stick together whichever works best for them. (You'd be sacrificing trash safety and speed to explore more, and kill more camps, albeit more slowly). Your strategy could likely dictate how close you are to spawning a boss, and how much time you left (dynamic gameplay > static).

Rather see a 4 man or solo for relic stuff, 8 man is just too much and would be too close to raiding, which would turn me away from relics. Just force people to pick up 1-2 sets of trash at a time, none of this speed running nonsense that the game has been infested with since ARR.

Eureka costs 800 Creation tomes to enter (in 4.2 Creation tomes will no longer be the main currency, hence the cost, my reddit post wasn't as clear originally hoping this fixes it)). In DF it charges 200 per player upon zoning in. In PF any # of players can contribute any amount of tomes to reach the total 800. The idea behind this is to gate the amount of times you can do it in a row, but also allow people who play more to help those who play less. There are also other items you can supply to change how Eureka rules works and you only have 3 enhancement slots. More on that below.

I'll again pass on paying to get into a dungeon, so will a lot of others that don't want to mess with getting tomes. I barely do dailies for tomes to get 330 gear as it is.

Eureka would scale based on a star system ranking 1 through 5. 1 being the least dangerous, with 5 being the most. The DF would limit the difficulty to 1 star. You can boost the star (difficulty) rating in PF by supplying key items achieved from other forms of content. There are key items from Normal raids/dungeons that can be acquired to boost the difficulty to 2 stars. EX Trials can offer items that boost the difficulty up to 3 stars. Savage raids can boost the stars up to 4 stars, and lastly clearing the final turn offers a guaranteed item to boost to 5 stars. The key items needed to boost the star rating aren't super rare, but they aren't common either.

Again too much of a raid like system for my taste, remember this needs to be accessible later on after the expac is long over, raids like coil are still today unsync'd pretty hard to solo.

The content is timed like all duties. You're in a rush to explore as safely as possible while navigating the challenges randomly presented to you. The default time limit is 30 minutes. You can extend this in PF groups only by supplying a key item "Hourglass of Time". This item can be obtained via crafters. Each one increases the duration by 10 minutes.

POTD 2.0 for relics, with an added time deal? uh, no...

I like these ideas for non MMO rpgs other than the time and payment to get in, they would work well in that setting, or you know POTD like system it would work without the relics.

[KaldeaSahaline]

Imo, it mostly comes down to splitting the task in seemingly authentic ways, or rather to tasks that can be readily, recognized as having intuitive and authentic partitionable needs. A single boss can rarely provide that. But a boss pack? Or a boss with meaningful adds? Further mechanics atop that? And then some more (with each added party)? Now you have some leverage to stand on, design wise.

You still run into my issue though. How do you successfully tune this content to be as engaging as I am going for, with respect to such a large group? It's like world bosses in WoW or normal mode raiding. You just brute force them. There's no real mechanics or coordination required because if there was suddenly its mythic raiding and pugs aren't clearing it. It's simply do X DPS and Y healing throughput and step out of glowing circles/lines.

Splitting the raid by having "boss packs" or adds is still functionally identical to current 24 man raids, which you know I'm not a fan of.

Is this do to scaling formulas, or just your typical leniency (nothing to specifically require two tanks, which would otherwise prevent those mob packs being faced during group-splitting anyways)?

Leniency.

I'd just like to eventually see compositional flex applied to just about anything and everything, and feel like this range of content (serious enough to entice try-hards, aware-and-adaptive players, and high skill-gap, but not so far as to be crushingly fixated upon and meta-ruled over near its top and sheeped after at its lower levels) would be absolutely perfect for it.

I've mentioned I'm a fan of the concept of flex, it's just way above my paygrade to visualize and work out mechanically. Trust me I've tried

This just sound like a terribly frustrating idea, especially given your example of the area's size (Azys Lla is a pretty big zone). There'd be nothing fun about getting a boss spawning on the other side of the map.
You'll either have to just have a set objective that enables for the entirety of the instance timer, or decrease the size of the map.

I meant "land mass size" of azys la, not the empty areas in between. I.e. if you grouped all the land masses together and cut out the stuff in between, that large. Which isn't very big.

As for boss spawns, one spawning on the other end is part of the gameplay. You can spawn a new boss while that one is up. and have as many up at a time that you spawned. This means that if a particular boss has too hard of mechanics, you can leave it and spawn a new one. Unlikely on lower difficulties due to breadth of mechanics, but possible on higher.

Why is it that a DF group gets a total cost of 1600 tomes? That seems like a silly "incentive" to get people to use the PF. Just leave it at 100 tomes per person, the same as the total cost of a PF group.

Excellent catch. This is not intended. When I originally designed this content it was for 4m not 8, but ran into issues making it as engaging for tanks and must have forgot to fix that. It 100% should be 100 tomes a person, a fairly trivial cost. I will update this.

What's the point of setting the difficulty, when you have to rely on RNG to even start it at the difficulty that you want your group to tackle it at? Just give players the freedom to set the difficulty.
If you really want to have some way of "unlocking" higher difficulties, perhaps some type of attunement would be better. Like clearing the last savage turn of the current raid to permanently unlock the highest difficulty.

Good feedback. My goal for setting the difficulty was:

1) I wanted it to cost an "enhancement" slot meaning that is one extra "buff" you can't have going in.

2) I don't want people simply spamming the content back to back. Ideally I envision a world where you do all forms of content in a supplemental fashion hence the cost, and the need to accrue these items (again not rare, just not 100% drop and can be crafted).

3) The other reason was limiting the difficulty that DF could queue for. This can still be done by simply removing the option of anything higher than 1 star in DF, but hindsight

I can already see the PF comments. "LF x MORE FOR EUREKA - MUST HAVE 1 HOURGLASS OF TIME TO JOIN"

At which point, you might as well just set it to a normal instance timer.

There are 8 people and 3 enhancement slots. While your situation surely will exist in some form, it's also not hard to get a few people with them, or buy them, or have them. It's not like you need 1 from every person, and hell one person could supply all 3.

The monster stuff seems okay, though it might be tricky to pull bosses from other types of content, while retaining the possibility of each having 15+ mechanics.

Agreed.

Rather see a 4 man or solo for relic stuff, 8 man is just too much and would be too close to raiding, which would turn me away from relics. Just force people to pick up 1-2 sets of trash at a time, none of this speed running nonsense that the game has been infested with since ARR.

If you can find a way to make solo content in this game engaging let me know. I haven't found it. Citing specific examples of how you would design it would go a long way.

I long thought about 4 man (this concept was originally 4 man), but found that you are simply limited on breadth of mechanics and it was really hard to make tanking engaging as a 4m party.

You would be turned away from relics because of the number of people in your party? You do 24 mans don't you? You do your trial roulette right? Or do you strictly only do expert dungeons? This seems like irrational bias, but I'll let you clarify your statement before making any judgment.

I'll again pass on paying to get into a dungeon, so will a lot of others that don't want to mess with getting tomes. I barely do dailies for tomes to get 330 gear as it is.

Speaking strictly for myself, I play the game roughly 3-4 hours a week. I am capped on every single tome in the game. I have nothing to spend them on. The good news is that if you do it via PF, you don't need any tomes if someone wants to pay your way for you.

Again too much of a raid like system for my taste, remember this needs to be accessible later on after the expac is long over, raids like coil are still today unsync'd pretty hard to solo.

They could simply scale the content into new expansions rather than abandoning it. May I ask what your aversion to raid content is? What specifically about 'raid content' bothers you?

POTD 2.0 for relics, with an added time deal? uh, no...

I like these ideas for non MMO rpgs other than the time and payment to get in, they would work well in that setting, or you know POTD like system it would work without the relics.

Yes, time is important. I understand people don't like pressure, but a degree of pressure is needed to reach the level of combat engagement I am going for.

I've mentioned I'm not opposed to pulling relics out of the concept (it was merely a vessel to attach the concept too), but I am genuinely curious what you think a good relic content structure would like.

You and I very clearly have different concepts of what qualifies as engaging gameplay and that's ok and a good thing to build a healthy discussion on.

[Shurrikhan]

You still run into my issue though. How do you successfully tune this content to be as engaging as I am going for, with respect to such a large group? It's like world bosses in WoW or normal mode raiding. You just brute force them. There's no real mechanics or coordination required because if there was suddenly its mythic raiding and pugs aren't clearing it. It's simply do X DPS and Y healing throughput and step out of glowing circles/lines.

Splitting the raid by having "boss packs" or adds is still functionally identical to current 24 man raids, which you know I'm not a fan of.

See, I don't see why, given only the same leniency, that would be the case any more than in, say, an 8-man, or even a 4-man. The only significant bonuses are via additional transferable resource or toolkit redundancy (e.g. having more rez-capable people available, or one team being able to fill in for another ONLY if one team is facing a lesser threat than the other). When constraints are already tight, those may reduce the chance for an instant wipe to single- or few-target attacks, but they then come at a cost of resource sustainability, and as the deviation one must account for shrinks as the player count increases, that sustain becomes vitally important. If damage taken potential, for instance, increases with each player added — ToS or A4S levels of if one person fails, everyone's in pain — then necessarily an even scalar cannot be used, but if that damage remains mostly proportionate, it's really not an issue, and you don't need to add exorbitant amounts of leniency just to make the content doable.

I think we're just working off two different assumptions as to the tuning necessary for large-scale content. If one leaves the tuning scalar effectively untouched, and follows a flexible mechanics tables based on the player count (or even gear- or achievement- or whatever-count) per role, I don't see why large-scale content would have to be any more zerg than small-scale. More chaotic-yet-(short-term)-forgiving, perhaps, but no more "zerg".

[Wintersandman]

Why would you prefer light party? Why does it being instanced take away from being casual (note that casual is not actually a measure of skill, but a measure of time). By your definition, dugneons and normal mode raids aren't casual?

In HW and ARR I could do a bulk of the Relic quest solo. I log into the game to experience the world and I don't necessarily always want to be in a party. Outside of my daily roulettes that I only am currently doing for leveling I would prefer to not have to interact with a PC all the time. Diadem was fun for the first two weeks but then it is the same repeatable content. In HW I had multiple sources of doing the relic for each step, some could be in a group and some could be solo.


Also Diadem you have to wait for 8 people to queue up to be able to do said content. Once people have their relics the content will die off which will leave several people stranded waiting for the next time SE makes Eureka relevant. Getting 3 other people together is a lot easier than trying to organize 7. I tried getting a dungeon pop for A1-4 during 3.5 and it was virtually impossible. Not everyone wants to go back and queue for old content that they already spammed.

They could simply scale the content into new expansions rather than abandoning it. May I ask what your aversion to raid content is? What specifically about 'raid content' bothers you?

Forced parties.... I don't always want to party which is why I don't touch raids after I complete the story and I only did A1S for light on my first relic. A1S is the only savage content I have ever touched and had the desire to touch. For my PLD relic I did PvP.

[Shouko]

If you can find a way to make solo content in this game engaging let me know. I haven't found it. Citing specific examples of how you would design it would go a long way.

I long thought about 4 man (this concept was originally 4 man), but found that you are simply limited on breadth of mechanics and it was really hard to make tanking engaging as a 4m party.

You would be turned away from relics because of the number of people in your party? You do 24 mans don't you? You do your trial roulette right? Or do you strictly only do expert dungeons? This seems like irrational bias, but I'll let you clarify your statement before making any judgment.

Relics aren't meant to be heavily mechanic based, they're meant to be a grind, otherwise they would be on par with a major raid and people don't want to raid for their relics or at least the average player base wouldn't.

I haven't done Shin Ex, O1-4S, I only completed non savage of Omega and story mode of the SB primals, haven't unlocked the new 24 man.

Speaking strictly for myself, I play the game roughly 3-4 hours a week. I am capped on every single tome in the game. I have nothing to spend them on. The good news is that if you do it via PF, you don't need any tomes if someone wants to pay your way for you.

Yeah I never claimed it was hard to cap them, I just don't like grinding tomes because well I prefer to earn my gear rather than buy it. aka go through a dungeon and get it as a drop is more rewarding for me than getting a token to buy said gear. Again comes from the old school player in WoW when you earned everything, nothing was handed to you.

May I ask what your aversion to raid content is? What specifically about 'raid content' bothers you?

That's a lot to go in but i'll try to sum up the main points.

1. Too much elitism and not enough statics these days from my experience.
2. I don't care about min/max BIS crap, I did that in WoW for years and burned out on it.
3. Gear elevators, becomes worthless after a few months of a higher tier.
4. Lack of helping learn the fights, I play on a console and I don't use discord.
5. SE basically has made the game into dance dance revolution or DPS sponges instead of actual meaningful content.
6. Generally hate the instant KO mechanics, along with too small areas to move...Not fun imo for raiding.

All in all I love the concepts you came up with just not in an MMO environment, I would love to see stuff like that added to POTD 2.0 or some such, just leave the relic alone, since we're getting relic armor along with weapons it's just too much to handle imo for the average player. SE doesn't have a habit of scaling content down, you can still wipe quite easily on original coil, ARR primals, etc. I love the challenge of soloing back content but SE just keeps the mechanics too heavily in them, to do for the most part.

[Shurrikhan]

5. SE basically has made the game into dance dance revolution or DPS sponges instead of actual meaningful content.

I was wondering if I could a bit more context on this from you. This has been something that I've heard a lot, but have trouble putting a finger on, myself, as in many cases even the "deepest" one may think of will still inevitably boil down to optimal positioning over time (or, DDR). What kinds of mechanics or thought processes draw you in, and which sort of push your interest away?

There's a lot more I'd like to ask, but as I'm already being so officious as to stick my nose in your conversation unwantedly, I'd hate to trouble you with any more than this for now (as all else is predicated on it anyways).

[Shouko]

I was wondering if I could a bit more context on this from you. This has been something that I've heard a lot, but have trouble putting a finger on, myself, as in many cases even the "deepest" one may think of will still inevitably boil down to optimal positioning over time (or, DDR). What kinds of mechanics or thought processes draw you in, and which sort of push your interest away?

There's a lot more I'd like to ask, but as I'm already being so officious as to stick my nose in your conversation unwantedly, I'd hate to trouble you with any more than this for now (as all else is predicated on it anyways).

I don't really mind, it's not like I'm annoyed with this.

Honestly most of my experience is with single/multiplayer games not of MMO's. I think a lot of what OP had to say was great in terms of mechanics and randomizing things, I just don't want added challenges on top of the Relic system.

I think a lot of it has to do with all you really do is stack, kill, run, there's no avoiding AoE by say DRG High Jump like there was in XI, BLM could get a phase to avoid the damage, etc, stuff that fits the job instead of just running away or stacking. One of the biggest problems that i've seen in recent dungeons is literally have no time to move out of the AoE, why bother making an AoE if you can't even get away from it?

But it's not just the DDR stuff that turns me off to raiding. Having to gear up the min/max stats, get the tomes for the BIS, very little statics, most of the time it's just PF/DF stuff. The hostility of players not wanting to help others learn by sticking around, currently my FC has this little clique and even tho they say it's not they tend to only invite the clique group most of the time. The rewards just aren't relevant enough for a long enough period of time other than say Savage and even that's hit or miss.

It's hard to put thoughts of what could be improved for mechanics when the entire game is built around said mechanics vs glamour or other things which is a lot easier to come up with ideas for.

[KaldeaSahaline]

See, I don't see why, given only the same leniency, that would be the case any more than in, say, an 8-man, or even a 4-man. The only significant bonuses are via additional transferable resource or toolkit redundancy (e.g. having more rez-capable people available, or one team being able to fill in for another ONLY if one team is facing a lesser threat than the other). When constraints are already tight, those may reduce the chance for an instant wipe to single- or few-target attacks, but they then come at a cost of resource sustainability, and as the deviation one must account for shrinks as the player count increases, that sustain becomes vitally important. If damage taken potential, for instance, increases with each player added — ToS or A4S levels of if one person fails, everyone's in pain — then necessarily an even scalar cannot be used, but if that damage remains mostly proportionate, it's really not an issue, and you don't need to add exorbitant amounts of leniency just to make the content doable.

I think we're just working off two different assumptions as to the tuning necessary for large-scale content. If one leaves the tuning scalar effectively untouched, and follows a flexible mechanics tables based on the player count (or even gear- or achievement- or whatever-count) per role, I don't see why large-scale content would have to be any more zerg than small-scale. More chaotic-yet-(short-term)-forgiving, perhaps, but no more "zerg".

I'll task you with a project. Develop a 24 man encounter with some example mechanics and a "expected outcome". I.e. how to pass each mechanic ideally based on 'small group, medium, and large'. (4, 8, and 24 respectively).


I am refraining from the scalar discussion bit, because I am unable to work out how I would even tackle that at the moment. I'd prefer to keep that discussion separate (but please know I SUPPORT the concept of flex), I just have no idea how to implement/tune it.

In HW and ARR I could do a bulk of the Relic quest solo. I log into the game to experience the world and I don't necessarily always want to be in a party. Outside of my daily roulettes that I only am currently doing for leveling I would prefer to not have to interact with a PC all the time. Diadem was fun for the first two weeks but then it is the same repeatable content. In HW I had multiple sources of doing the relic for each step, some could be in a group and some could be solo.

While you can some of the relic quest solo, a significant portion requires duties. While I understand your playstyle is that of a single player RPG for the most part, that really isn't what an MMO is about, nor what my content is about. It's fine for us to disagree on this, but hopefully you can see that catering a single player experience in an MMO isn't ideal.

Also Diadem you have to wait for 8 people to queue up to be able to do said content. Once people have their relics the content will die off which will leave several people stranded waiting for the next time SE makes Eureka relevant. Getting 3 other people together is a lot easier than trying to organize 7. I tried getting a dungeon pop for A1-4 during 3.5 and it was virtually impossible. Not everyone wants to go back and queue for old content that they already spammed.

I said to another poster that they don't need to abandon the content. They can easily make it relevant between expansions. Not only that, they could employ a WoW method where they continually retune Eureka based on current game level. I.e. Mythic+ scales to balance itself against each raid tier so that it isn't left behind.

Forced parties.... I don't always want to party which is why I don't touch raids after I complete the story and I only did A1S for light on my first relic. A1S is the only savage content I have ever touched and had the desire to touch. For my PLD relic I did PvP.

Again, I hate to reiterate this statement, but seriously it's an MMO, not a single player RPG. The bulk of the content SHOULD be party content, not single player stuff. That is my personal opinion, feel free to refute it, but you will not change my mind on this.

Relics aren't meant to be heavily mechanic based, they're meant to be a grind, otherwise they would be on par with a major raid and people don't want to raid for their relics or at least the average player base wouldn't.

I haven't done Shin Ex, O1-4S, I only completed non savage of Omega and story mode of the SB primals, haven't unlocked the new 24 man.

They still wouldn't be. You're quite literally the perfect example of what I am trying to convey. A player like you would queue up in DF, pay your 100 tomes, get matched with randoms and go on your merry way working on your 1 star Eureka run to power up your relic.

It'd be equivalent to doing a dungeon with not max ilvl that you don't know the mechanics too. Realistically it'd be no different than your first run of Skalla, but instead of it being once, it'd be everytime you queued into it? Does that sound bad to you?

Meanwhile, a player like me can get my static or a PF group going and tackle a 3 star and work on our relic weapon too and be proportionally rewarded and challenged. We're grinding just like you, but it's not mindless to us and we can get a relic weapon doing content we like, just like you can for you.

Yeah I never claimed it was hard to cap them, I just don't like grinding tomes because well I prefer to earn my gear rather than buy it. aka go through a dungeon and get it as a drop is more rewarding for me than getting a token to buy said gear. Again comes from the old school player in WoW when you earned everything, nothing was handed to you.

You're preaching to the choir here. This content is about powering up (earning) gear and earning other gear via drops (inside the instance). You even spend tomes to get in which further reinforces that concept.

That's a lot to go in but i'll try to sum up the main points.

1. Too much elitism and not enough statics these days from my experience.
2. I don't care about min/max BIS crap, I did that in WoW for years and burned out on it.
3. Gear elevators, becomes worthless after a few months of a higher tier.
4. Lack of helping learn the fights, I play on a console and I don't use discord.
5. SE basically has made the game into dance dance revolution or DPS sponges instead of actual meaningful content.
6. Generally hate the instant KO mechanics, along with too small areas to move...Not fun imo for raiding.

Fair enough, appreciate the insight. I will say that you don't need to min-max BIS stuff (at least I don't and I have 90%+ logs) and I personally haven't seen much TRUE elitism lately; mostly just the nonsensical people who are bad who think x y z is good, when it is objectively not.

You can easily get discord on your phone if you truly were interested in being a part of that.

I agree with the heavy choreographic nature of encounter design.

I also agree instant KO and predictable encounter environments are clear detractors to FF14 raid design.

All in all I love the concepts you came up with just not in an MMO environment, I would love to see stuff like that added to POTD 2.0 or some such, just leave the relic alone, since we're getting relic armor along with weapons it's just too much to handle imo for the average player. SE doesn't have a habit of scaling content down, you can still wipe quite easily on original coil, ARR primals, etc. I love the challenge of soloing back content but SE just keeps the mechanics too heavily in them, to do for the most part.

I am not opposed to pulling my concept out of relic territory and into somewhere else. That said, I hope my response above about your expected experience would help mitigate your concerns about the concept.

I was wondering if I could a bit more context on this from you. This has been something that I've heard a lot, but have trouble putting a finger on, myself, as in many cases even the "deepest" one may think of will still inevitably boil down to optimal positioning over time (or, DDR). What kinds of mechanics or thought processes draw you in, and which sort of push your interest away?

There's a lot more I'd like to ask, but as I'm already being so officious as to stick my nose in your conversation unwantedly, I'd hate to trouble you with any more than this for now (as all else is predicated on it anyways).

I'm going to butt in here with my own input. Not sure if we covered it previously, but my largest gripe with the raid encounter design is that everything is so fixed. Failing a mechanic almost always results in a death, or a full wipe. That's not FUN imo.

Ideally I'd like mechanics to be more organic in that failing the Shin EX heart doesn't wipe you, but maybe it spawns an add, that then channels a cast to break one of the random squares left. or maybe the add pulses AOE damage based on how close you are to it, meaning you now need to be more aware of tethers etc and stay away from it, or kill it when other raid damage dies down. Stuff that allows decision making on the fly, chances for people to excel and recover.

[Shouko]

They still wouldn't be. You're quite literally the perfect example of what I am trying to convey. A player like you would queue up in DF, pay your 100 tomes, get matched with randoms and go on your merry way working on your 1 star Eureka run to power up your relic.

Tomes are a stupid idea, you have to grind those tomes to get into a dungeon, I don't want to waste 100 tomes or even 1 tome on a dungeon of any sort. I don't like randoms that's my major complaint with raiding as it is. I prefer a static of like minded people that want to go in to have fun and get some loot not go in for the loot itself.

Meanwhile, a player like me can get my static or a PF group going and tackle a 3 star and work on our relic weapon too and be proportionally rewarded and challenged. We're grinding just like you, but it's not mindless to us and we can get a relic weapon doing content we like, just like you can for you.

I'm not looking for mindless content, as I keep saying i like the ideas, they just don't fit in for relic grinds. I disagree about you being able to get your relic faster because you chose the harder content, not everyone has the time to put the effort into raiding (not talking about myself)

You're preaching to the choir here. This content is about powering up (earning) gear and earning other gear via drops (inside the instance). You even spend tomes to get in which further reinforces that concept.

Spending tomes isn't what people are really interested in doing though.

Fair enough, appreciate the insight. I will say that you don't need to min-max BIS stuff (at least I don't and I have 90%+ logs) and I personally haven't seen much TRUE elitism lately; mostly just the nonsensical people who are bad who think x y z is good, when it is objectively not.

Might hold true for you but I hear about my FC leader not being able to get into O3S even tho she's geared and knows the fight. I've seen plenty of elitism on the forums as it is. It's always there, regardless of you seeing it or not, count yourself lucky.

You can easily get discord on your phone if you truly were interested in being a part of that.

I know you can get discord on your phone but I dislike voice chat, unless it's with friends over the PSN.

I am not opposed to pulling my concept out of relic territory and into somewhere else. That said, I hope my response above about your expected experience would help mitigate your concerns about the concept.

At this point I doubt it really matters, I'm sure they have Eureka pretty much fleshed out and how the relic is going to work in the start.

I however would like to see your ideas put into a POTD type of system, whether it's single player or party content. I think your ideas are great and whatnot but I just think it's better suited for a filler type thing to do outside of raiding. I think there needs to be more focus on harder 4 man content and less on 8 man content, they've started doing this but I just never really liked raiding, it's more about the player count than anything else tbh.

[Wintersandman]

While you can some of the relic quest solo, a significant portion requires duties. While I understand your playstyle is that of a single player RPG for the most part, that really isn't what an MMO is about, nor what my content is about. It's fine for us to disagree on this, but hopefully you can see that catering a single player experience in an MMO isn't ideal.

I said to another poster that they don't need to abandon the content. They can easily make it relevant between expansions. Not only that, they could employ a WoW method where they continually retune Eureka based on current game level. I.e. Mythic+ scales to balance itself against each raid tier so that it isn't left behind.

Again, I hate to reiterate this statement, but seriously it's an MMO, not a single player RPG. The bulk of the content SHOULD be party content, not single player stuff. That is my personal opinion, feel free to refute it, but you will not change my mind on this.

Why not just make Diadem 4.0 and not include the relic? Relic is meant completely for casual play and past relics had some dungeon content yes but I got to choose for almost every step what content I wanted to engage in. For the items I could do beast tribes, A1S or turn in tomes. I had an option for solo play and an option for group play.

The thing that makes this game is amazing, as I can do group play and I can do solo play. SE is already catering to this just as you can't do story duties in a group. They designed the game for this intent in mind because their past MMO you couldn't even level without a group.

Yes SE could refresh the content but now you have content that is either too far ahead or too far behind. 3.1-3.5 wasn't that massive of a shift but massive enough people in their 270 gear would steamroll A1S where as someone in i190 gear would be suffering.

Plus a bulk of the content is currently gated behind group play. End game I get to... grind fates and do beast tribes I already have maxed.