Healers are way too strong in large scale PvP.

[RiyahArp]

...the old pvp healers had no offensive attacks, and a good healer wouldn't even fight you anyways, they'd fluid aura or cc you and run. And a lot of jobs "soloed" them by using melee limit break, which activated a little like brute justice's beam in that it activated at start, not at animations finish. You just had to attack them a little, then stun and LB.

[Rufalus]

You just had to attack them a little, then stun and LB.

haha I remember, melee LB was so strong for a long time. actually during that period there was a patch that greatly increase adrenaline charge speed and we saw drg's get 30-40 kills in seal rock matches mostly by LBs, the LB sound effect going off constantly lol in big skirmishes. they soon reverted those changes. I guess it's a good thing adrenaline is less effective now, but combined with all the other changes like less CC it really reduces the impact a lone dps can make.

anyone know what JP players think about healer balance? the EN community complain about it everywhere, on official forum, reddit and gamefaqs, lots of people coming to the same conclusion, some people even citing it as the reason they stop playing pvp.

[Wintersandman]

...the old pvp healers had no offensive attacks, and a good healer wouldn't even fight you anyways, they'd fluid aura or cc you and run. And a lot of jobs "soloed" them by using melee limit break, which activated a little like brute justice's beam in that it activated at start, not at animations finish. You just had to attack them a little, then stun and LB.

But it didn't require LB to kill a healer. The reason most people LB'd was because A healers were a pain because CC abilities were down or B the player wasn't that great.

German forums

Has this to say.

So, hereby I also sign up for the PVP.
Of course, it's all about the general PVP changes with Stormblood, but also steel swinging.

Yesterday I was briefly in steel swinging as BLM. It must be said that I was only briefly in Feast at the beginning as WHM, but I did not like it at all, so I completely avoided PVP.
PVP content is great, used to play exclusively PVP (Battlefield, CS, Halo, C & C, etc.).
Meanwhile, this is limited to Mobas, but I still play active and like such PVP games.
In Final this is missing somehow. Carteneau front was really funny in the old days, the first with the drones and flags, and when the classes were barely changed.

A.Black Magician is really a great class, always happy to play in PVE content.

But my goodness, this class was made in the PVP with Stormblood equal to the ground and unplayable.
- Feuka and Eiska on the same button as Henochisch ?! Totally confusing. Well, after a few dozen games that would possibly sit, but still ... no, it's just wrong.
- Mana regeneration in the shadow ice: It is absolutely subterranean. It needs about twice as many ticks as in PVE. Why??
- Transposition is missing: Probably the worst of all. Why was this removed? It also does not help that the fire and ice are instant at the stance switch, the opponent runs out of range (which happens very often) or you have to dodge AoE or keep running if you can keep Polygott upright ... So no, sorry, what's this? As BLM'er times it gets really pissing automatically.
- only 7-8 skills ... simplification nice and good, but that's just wrong, especially without Transpo and reduced Manaregenration.
- far too few instants. No triple magic available. Then at least reduce spontaneity to 10sec or introduce triple magic, or prolong sleep or increase range.
Main thing anything.
But I think many classes are the same. Above all, burst damage is hardly possible ...
As a healer, it was also mega-boring. Not enough skills. Was WHM times in Feast ... absolute disaster.

B. Delays ... finally do something about it. The server-related delays. They have lost nothing in PVP. In first-person shooters or Mobas that would be quite unreasonable, no one would play PVP. Ever tried to kick an opponent in the "desired" direction? -> Impossible
I know this only from Halo 1, because you had to "vorzielen" to meet.

C.The new mode ... Cait has already criticized it well. The Moba-like stalk would be great. But the casting times of the 'Mechs attack are much too short and too strong. In addition, everyone runs around like wild chickens. The ranged of magicians with cast times is also too small. You have to constantly run out of AoE's because the one 'Mech would catch you on max range.

Conclusion:
- class rework miserable. Back to HW / ARR time and do not introduce too many differences to PVE
- fix delays
- instants cast (or more) for all. Ev. Increase range.
- make healers jobs more attractive
- revise / balance steel swingarms

In the PVP should be the possibility that you can alone the team Carrien, if you're really good. This is not possible with the current Stormblood PVP.

They agree the new 4.0 system is worse than what we had in 3.x

[RiyahArp]

if the healer was decent, yes it did require it. Because it was really the easiest way of doing it. I mean, come on, we didn't wear vit accessories as healers in seal rock because LB's were easy to deal with. But even in 3.0, it wasn't expected to solo a healer; you could drive them off because they could run to the next objective and didn't turtle anywhere near as much.

As for the germans, no offense but if you think its hard to burst a healer down now, you try it when you need to use 3x the abilities just to do a decent burst, or dealing with BLMS that mass sleep you or mass cometeor spam. I played it from the start of HW, and no it was not better. People complained just as much then.

[Wintersandman]

People complained just as much then.

People complain and will always complain. The goal is to satisfy 75% of the people. MNK was SCH's weak point. But SCH was tough for a lot of others.

the turrets didn't even tickle a player.

Having been killed by a Turret I would say that the tickle did enough.

[Synestra]

I played it from the start of HW, and no it was not better. People complained just as much then.

I have played pvp since 2.3 and i can say it was WAY better in ARR and in HW, sure there was few issues in both expansions but overall balance was more than fine. I was against most nerfs in HW like SMN one when they could macro their burst as timed purify was direct counter for that or cycled CD's if you were a tank, after that was over said SMN was more or less free kill so there goes "OP SMN" argument. Only things that needed tweaks was those running insta-cast astros and monster WAR that somehow went under the radar trough whole HW expansion.

[RiyahArp]

I'm starting to sound like a broken record SYnestra, but I think people are just remembering the good and forgetting the bad. I don't really oppose it if the players want it, but I odn't think people should expect it to fix anything. We had three seasons of the feast with chat and HW moveset enabled, and it wasn't a solution then.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

They agree the new 4.0 system is worse than what we had in 3.x

Mmm. . . talk dirty to me!


Okay, seriously though, 3.x wasn't perfect, but it was a LOT more balanced. Come on, going from all jobs having at least 2 different CCs to 3 out of 4 melees having none? MCH hitting like a melee (stronger in some cases) at range, but a slave to the GCD? LBs hitting like nothing? (Come on, I survived 4 or 5 caster LBs stacked on me in a video!) And now healers being more of a tank than tanks are? That same caution I used to have when running into a WAR, I now have running into a WHM. Doesn't mean I can't still take them down, but whereas the WAR would have to effectively use his skillset and outplay me, the WHM can just outheal what I do, emergency heal themselves back up in a pinch, shield themselves to gain momentum, and basically fight a war of attrition. Can't retreat because now their damage is based on their main stat, so they actually CAN do decent damage.

CC chains were, in my opinion, a product of coordinated team play. Why do I say that? Because if you got a stun happy PLD and they stunned that healer into immunity, you were out of luck to work your stun to burst for the next minute. I think the older 3 sec stuns/6 sec Sleep with the 6 sec resistance would be a nice balance, but with everything being a blink and you miss it CC now, it's still useful, but feels terrible compared to what it was.

I think a bigger issue is many only look at what was wrong with 3.x PvP and not what was actually right all along.


Wew, Sophia's gotta be loving this balance right now.