Healers are way too strong in large scale PvP.

[BubblyBoar]

Issue is mostly that PvP isn't balanced for multiple healers. SE said it themselves that PvP is balanced for the Feast. This leaves large scale PvP a mess.

[Lorielle]

Issue is mostly that PvP isn't balanced for multiple healers. SE said it themselves that PvP is balanced for the Feast. This leaves large scale PvP a mess.

Then why would you make large scale content and then not balance it for that? That's utterly stupid and speaks volumes in how much they care about their PVP system in general. Which, you know, isn't a lot since it took years for them to just lift GC restrictions.

[Zojha]

Issue is mostly that PvP isn't balanced for multiple healers.

Well of course not, if one healer is already broken, then naturally multiple aren't balanced either.

And again, "large scale" PvP is actually the least affected by the issue, by any balancing issue really - the larger the scale, the higher the burst potential and the easier coordination. 200vs200, just mark any target and within a global it's gonna die, regardless of what it is, if it isn't dead by the time you mark it already because people coordinated on a target by accident. Nobody is even going to notice there 'are' healers in that mess. The only imbalances you'll be able to notice there are ranged vs melee and AoE vs single target. It's a mass effect that swallows and overcompensates for imbalances.

Healer impact is actually at its peak when the scale is small - 1vs1, they pretty much win guaranteed. 2vs2 or 3vs3 with one side having a or multiple healers and the other not? Don't bother. What do you think Feast would look like without the role lock? It'd be just as broken as the generator fight in Rival Wings, likely more. What's balanced about Feast is the initial map layout and the fact that both teams get the same amount of gimped and broken forced on them.

People (and I'm not addressing anyone in particular here, because it's far too many) then constantly point to CC as if it meant anything.

Fact is: If somebody is CC'd, they cannot act, so how much power their actions have is irrelevant in that moment - they cannot use them. Even a guy who can one-shot everyone with any skill is going to be defeat-able while CC'd, for the same reason they are defeat-able while AFK, while they're DDOS'd or while their cat sits on their keyboard, namely the inability to use the power they have, however much that might be, whether it's more or less than other players have, whether they're over- or underpowered. And because of that, it's irrelevant when discussing or considering the power of the person that is CC'd, whether in this game or in any other, because the two have nothing to do with each other.

The link between CC and power lies in the fact that the power and value of CC scale proportionally with the power that is being disabled with it. That's why silencing a monk is worthless (It doesn't disable any power) and why CC on healers is so crucial - because they are broken and preventing them from using broken is hugely valuable to the point of being mandatory in small scale PvP. Similarly, CCing a guy that can one-shot people would be highly valuable, far more so than CCing somebody who can barely scrape someone's health bar. Hence why CCing DPS is never a big priority. And because of that, CC is relevant when discussing the power of the people that have it in their toolkit. This is the only angle where it is relevant in the healer debate, because every healer has at least one form of CC. But that isn't taxed in their power budget in the slightest.

"Balance" in this game can be summed up with a simple picture:

No, it isn't physically balanced, it isn't real, it doesn't exist. But if you believe hard enough...

[Brill_]

If they don't want to mess with skill balance, they should just had a RW mechanic to counter healers. People have mentioned wanting gobwalkers. How about add a gobwalker mech that is anti-infantry (but useless against other mechs).

[HaoNam]

Healers are fine the way they are. If you cannot kill then learn to work together with other people.

It's all about the timing and communication with other dps. Myself (mnk) and two friends (both Sam's) versus a white mage and astrologian.

First, we focused on the white mage but could not get him down with our CDs. We decided to save up our combo and burst. Then, one, two, three, we switched to astrologian and burst him with stuns. He went down so quick that the white mage panic and bene himself.

After that, we just zerged the white mage and killed him easily.

Imo, a single dps should not be able to kill a healer so easily. Especially, without a LB.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

A single DPS lacks the damage potencies to kill a healer unless they're simply quicker on the draw, or able to utilize CC skills at just the right time.

[saucyshortcake]

A single DPS lacks the damage potencies to kill a healer unless they're simply quicker on the draw, or able to utilize CC skills at just the right time.

A single healer has to be completely incompetent to die to a single dps.

Small comparison, a Black Mage's chief nuke Fire IV has a 2500 potency on a 2.3s cast time. A white mage's Cure II has 5000 potency on a 1.3 second cast time. The only extra burst the black mage is going to throw is if they get their polyglot.. which can happen once every 30 seconds tops. Meanwhile, the white mage has protect, Divine Benison, Assize, and even Benediction to counter that if needed. Which they won't.

That's probably part of black mages being terrible in general compared to other ranged classes, but it's not like anyone else really has the potency either. Healing numbers are too high in this mode, especially when multiple can run together and DPS rarely have the coordination.

[Wintersandman]

But the WHM can barely do anything else to counteract the BLM. In large scale modes, BLM can be extremely deadly as they can go into their highest potency ability almost immediately. Instant Fire and Bliz is not pleasant for anyone to deal with. There is no running away from a BLM.

[internalconstrife]

uh i reckon they just need to limit healers to one per party for rival wings. Then work things out from there. Its also ridiculous in a pvp setting when you have players suicide charging mid to flip gen and possibly ignoring all fights through heals and such and still end up coming on top. I had a game where my party single handily held mid while wrecking 2-3 parties that kept coming mid to flip the gen. They pretty much ignored us acting like bots after dying the first few times lol... we ended the match with 80 kills alone in our party without the use of mechs and still ended up losing

Hell if you really wanna win right now, just go full 24 healers run around grab stuff/ flip mid and deploy mechs and by god is that super boring as hell.

[saucyshortcake]

If you're completely counteracting the BLM damage, what else do you really need to be doing? If all you're considering is instant fire/blizzard 1 then you might as well play BRD/MCH who don't have cast times on anything and do significantly better damage when moving.