Your map grid system is chafing my legs

[captainpicard]

I have never had an issue reading the map, or knowing where to go.

X will always be the first number, which is the line running left to right.

Y will always be the second number, which is the line running top to bottom.

If someone tells you to go to (30,28) then it's 30 across and 28 down...

I don't see the issue with the grid system or mapping being done this way, it's the basis of the X,Y axis and it has never changed that I know of in all of my years.

Both then again I work in game design and I use the XYZ axis a lot, so its just natural for me to think in those terms.

To me this map system is easy, never really thought much about it.

Sorry that you're having issues with it OP, but it's an easy thing to learn and I don't agree with you that it does need changing.

The continued assumption that I don't know what the coordinates mean is tired. I clarified from the outset I know what they mean.

As another person earlier in this thread stated, its a matter of ambiguity for the 1% that don't know. Its a matter of clarity for the people that screw up and switch numbers in their head from time to time. Its a matter of ease for those of us that are too tired to think straight at times.

Letter-Number leaves no question about it.

number-number always leaves a margin of error.

That is the bottom line.

You can continue to "think" there is nothing ambiguous or unclear about it and thats fine for you, but it doesn't change the facts, i.e. there are issues.

chow

[Dreamer]

The continued assumption that I don't know what the coordinates mean is tired. I clarified from the outset I know what they mean.

As another person earlier in this thread stated, its a matter of ambiguity for the 1% that don't know. Its a matter of clarity for the people that screw up and switch numbers in their head from time to time. Its a matter of ease for those of us that are too tired to think straight at times.

Letter-Number leaves no question about it.

number-number always leaves a margin of error.

That is the bottom line.

You can continue to "think" there is nothing ambiguous or unclear about it and thats fine for you, but it doesn't change the facts, i.e. there are issues.

chow

You saying something does not in any way automatically make it true. Quit talking as though your opinion is fact and then perhaps people will be less harsh towards you on the matter.

[captainpicard]

You saying something does not in any way automatically make it true. Quit talking as though your opinion is fact and then perhaps people will be less harsh towards you on the matter.

In this case, I am not stating an opinion, I am stating a fact.

Letter number leaves no room for ambiguity or confusion. They are not the same character set, thus, they are not confused.

You can reverse them, etc, and no matter what, the end result is the same. Whether I type (A,1) or (1,A) on the map you find A whether its on the X or Y axis doesnt matter. You just find the axis that corresponds to that. Then you find 1. One and done. No confusion. No ambiguity.

[KaiKatzchen]

The continued assumption that I don't know what the coordinates mean is tired. I clarified from the outset I know what they mean.

As another person earlier in this thread stated, its a matter of ambiguity for the 1% that don't know. Its a matter of clarity for the people that screw up and switch numbers in their head from time to time. Its a matter of ease for those of us that are too tired to think straight at times.

Letter-Number leaves no question about it.

number-number always leaves a margin of error.

That is the bottom line.

You can continue to "think" there is nothing ambiguous or unclear about it and thats fine for you, but it doesn't change the facts, i.e. there are issues.

chow

As I said, it is a simple thing to learn, and once explained is easy to grasp. This is the first time that I have heard anyone complain about the map grid system in all the time I have been playing since closed beta. If you are really concerned about that supposed 1% that you say might have an issues with it, then are you assuming they are not intelligent enough to grasp the very basic concept of what the X,Y coordinates are?

I'd rather believe that all people can be taught a basic concept and help them, than assume they are stupid and change it for that supposed 1% you feel won't grasp it.

[captainpicard]

As I said, it is a simple thing to learn, and once explained is easy to grasp. This is the first time that I have heard anyone complain about the map grid system in all the time I have been playing since closed beta. If you are really concerned about that supposed 1% that you say might have an issues with it, then are you assuming they are not intelligent enough to grasp the very basic concept of what the X,Y coordinates are?

I'd rather believe that all people can be taught a basic concept and help them, than assume they are stupid and change it for that supposed 1% you feel won't grasp it.

Then it sounds like you believe in bad design.

You should check out the tenants of 6 Sigma-That may shed some light on why it makes sense to design for the 1% that struggle, not the 99% that do not.

[KaiKatzchen]

Then it sounds like you believe in bad design.

You should check out the tenants of 6 Sigma-That may shed some light on why it makes sense to design for the 1% that struggle, not the 99% that do not.

I don't believe in bad design, but I also don't believe in assuming that people are stupid and can't be taught.

[Coglin]

I also don't believe in assuming that people are stupid and can't be taught.

Why not? Appearently this statement is difining yourself on this particular topic.

You appear to be incapable of being taught. You refuse to learn that there is more cause for confusion with marginal error and mistake then with an alpha-numaric system. There is an incredible number of intelligent or educated people with dyslexia, or other issues that can cause confussion with one individual directin another to an X,Y coordinate on a map.

They could not know, or nor recall what they were taught previously and give it to you wrong.

They could have dyslexic tendancies.

They could of had a crappy teacher who skipped over it.

They could simply be confussed.

The could have learned it incorrectly and opposite by mistake, and have always used it incorrectly.

The list goes on and on and on. But just as with yourself. Attepting to educate others, is by no means a garuntee that it will soak on oe be learned. It is cause for such uncertainty, that in all my years in the military, the axis was always given with the number for clarification, just as with lartitude and longitude. The work the same way but they are anounced with the coordinates reguardless. Because if you need and enemy location bombed or shell that is in your region, if you want to assume the young new soldier/airman/seaman on the other end of the radio gets it right and has the enemy hit and not you. Thats your business, but its not very intelligent to assume or claim the other guy won't screw it up.

[KaiKatzchen]

Why not? Appearently this statement is difining yourself on this particular topic.

You appear to be incapable of being taught. You refuse to learn that there is more cause for confusion with marginal error and mistake then with an alpha-numaric system. There is an incredible number of intelligent or educated people with dyslexia, or other issues that can cause confussion with one individual directin another to an X,Y coordinate on a map.

They could not know, or nor recall what they were taught previously and give it to you wrong.

They could have dyslexic tendancies.

They could of had a crappy teacher who skipped over it.

They could simply be confussed.

The could have learned it incorrectly and opposite by mistake, and have always used it incorrectly.

The list goes on and on and on. But just as with yourself. Attepting to educate others, is by no means a garuntee that it will soak on oe be learned. It is cause for such uncertainty, that in all my years in the military, the axis was always given with the number for clarification, just as with lartitude and longitude. The work the same way but they are anounced with the coordinates reguardless. Because if you need and enemy location bombed or shell that is in your region, if you want to assume the young new soldier/airman/seaman on the other end of the radio gets it right and has the enemy hit and not you. Thats your business, but its not very intelligent to assume or claim the other guy won't screw it up.

Difining? I am assuming that you mean defining?

If so, if believing that people can be taught is a bad thing and you're trying to hold that against me, then that is fine. What I don't like is people assuming with no actual proof to their credit, that there is exactly 1% of people in this game that don't get the system therefore the whole thing must be changed. Since they are saying that, and just want it changed flat out for that supposed 1%, is also basically saying that they believe that this 1% is not intelligent enough to be taught how to read 2 numbers on a map properly.

I myself am a college instructor so I deal with teaching student's on an almost daily basis, and one thing I have learned is never to doubt them because that will only teach them to doubt themselves. Most people can be taught through the act of repetition, and seeing that I do use the map on a constant basis I believe that people can learn that if I said:

"Meet me at (24,34)" so I can help you."

That it won't take long for most people to remember that the first number does correlate to the top line of numbers running across the top of the map, and that the second number correlates to the ones running down the side of the map.

Yes there is always a margin for error in all things, and when dealing with issues in FFXIV, I think two numbers on a map are the least of our worries. Anyway, if every time one person didn't understand something we just up and changed it instead of trying to educate people, then we would constantly change everything in our lives.

No, attempting to educate others is by no means a guarantee that it will be soaked in. But on the other hand, if you don't try then it's even a higher chance that that person will screw up.

Anyway which is worse? Doubting people and not even trying to educate them or helping them and giving them a better chance at success. This whole game is a learning experience, and we were all once at a point where we didn't know how to do things within it, but we learned, and we taught others what we learned. It makes us all better players.

One thing I do teach my students is to always admit mistakes, don't assume that you do know everything. If you assume that you know everything, then no one will want to teach them. But if they can admit their faults it makes them an open book that is willing to accept knowledge and in the end it will make them a better more intelligent person.

All things in life were once new to us, even you were once new in the military... if people doubted in you would that have made you feel good? I'm sorry but your post seems very negative all around, and you seem to doubt in people.

But then again this is a forum, and text is deceiving. Our true feelings don't always come out in it, so I could be reading it wrong. I will always believe that people can be taught, and if that makes me a bad person, at least I'm a bad person who believes in my student's and doesn't doubt or give up on them.

[lackofwords]

What I don't like is people assuming with no actual proof to their credit, that there is exactly 1% of people in this game that don't get the system therefore the whole thing must be changed. Since they are saying that, and just want it changed flat out for that supposed 1%, is also basically saying that they believe that this 1% is not intelligent enough to be taught how to read 2 numbers on a map properly.

Just want to clarify that the 1% statement came from my own personal experiences, and I gave sufficient examples of those experiences in that post. It should not be taken as a statistical analysis on the whole player base by any means. If you are interested in statistics, look up all the individuals who've edited on Eorzeapedia on coordinates for each articles.

What Scherwiz said boils it down. It's a map.

You do realize cartographers and geologists use numbers and letters, or numbers and numbers, or letters and letters?

The decision comes down to the mapmaker, and in this instance SE has decided numbers, I think its fairly final at this point.

Reading a manual, explaining, or fiddling around with an aspect in a game should be something that is enjoyable, not cumbersome. So, when is it a virtue to learn before it becomes a flaw in design?

Like I said in my previous post. "...people don't understand that this is an ambiguity issue. Not language issue, nor an education issue, nor is it an intuitive issue." It's not doubting people's capability to interpret a map, nor doubting that people don't have the ability to clarify the ambiguity on a case by case scenario. People can learn after fiddling with it. That's what we did on day one of the game.

The coordinates ambiguity at the worst was when there used to be no <pos>, nor markings on the map of your coordinates. The only place they listed how coordinates standards were on the lodestone. In fact, they avoided giving coordinates even on the lodestone. They even had a manual to explain how to read the map coordinates.

But even with the lodestone manual, it was up to the individual's preference in either (Y,X) or (X,Y) coordinates. If you want proof of how old this coordinate ambiguity problem existed check Eorzeapedia edit histories, they've had conflicts with listing between (X,Y) and (Y,X) coordinates when starting out the wiki.

Eorzeapedia discussion on how to set standards for coordinates (September 2010)

And simply all this happened because they had two axes with the same incremental values, numerical. It's like allowing someone to write in "t" and "f" on a true and false exam. You know it's not going to end well.

[AdaraaKatsumi]

Why not? Appearently this statement is difining yourself on this particular topic.

You appear to be incapable of being taught. You refuse to learn that there is more cause for confusion with marginal error and mistake then with an alpha-numaric system. There is an incredible number of intelligent or educated people with dyslexia, or other issues that can cause confussion with one individual directin another to an X,Y coordinate on a map.

They could not know, or nor recall what they were taught previously and give it to you wrong.

They could have dyslexic tendancies.

They could of had a crappy teacher who skipped over it.

They could simply be confussed.

The could have learned it incorrectly and opposite by mistake, and have always used it incorrectly.

The list goes on and on and on. But just as with yourself. Attepting to educate others, is by no means a garuntee that it will soak on oe be learned. It is cause for such uncertainty, that in all my years in the military, the axis was always given with the number for clarification, just as with lartitude and longitude. The work the same way but they are anounced with the coordinates reguardless. Because if you need and enemy location bombed or shell that is in your region, if you want to assume the young new soldier/airman/seaman on the other end of the radio gets it right and has the enemy hit and not you. Thats your business, but its not very intelligent to assume or claim the other guy won't screw it up.

It sounds like you need to start a thread to let the Devs know that you want a GPS unit installed on chocobos. You should also put that on Twitter as they are addicted to Twitter when responding to inquiries about the game.