Warriors need MORE damage

[Shouko]

Next we will have threads on RDM, BLM, SAM, MNK wanting more dps/dmg.....oh wait, nvm.

[AziraSyuren]

I know this is bait but

I would've agreed with this entirely until the Shake it Off change, but Divine Veil is ultimately the most important piece of utility that Paladin has and now Warriors have an explicitly better version of it. There's absolutely no reason for them to do a significant amount more damage than Paladin now, if at all, outside of class flavor.

No more so than any other job...

Less, so, even, than Bard or Monk.

Yes, a disproportionately large part of Warrior damage is dealt within a small portion of gameplay, which means fewer sample strikes, but it's no more dependent on critical strikes or direct hits than anyone else -- less, even, than any job that specifically has on-crit mechanics.

That's not how RNG works. I see this train of thought often but it's simply not true.

RNG is "random," sure, but it still trends towards a more consistent value over time. Less sample strikes means there's less time for the RNG to equalize. RNG ultimately has more of a detrimental effect on Warrior than anything else because of this fact, because it's the only job in the game that does so much of its damage in such a small number of casts. It's actually incredibly unlikely for RNG to be truly detrimental on any of the supposed "RNG-heavy" jobs with crit mechanics, because those jobs both have a rather large casts-per-minute number.

This is a pretty big design flaw on Warrior's end imo but I can't think of any fixes off the top of my head that would actually be fun.

[Launched]

I would've agreed with this entirely until the Shake it Off change, but Divine Veil is ultimately the most important piece of utility that Paladin has and now Warriors have an explicitly better version of it.

Shake it Off is weaker than Divine Veil but with a shorter cooldown. PLD still has Passage of Arms on top of that for more frequent raidwide mitigation (rotating the shield and 15% mitigation every minute if you really want to), along with Clemency, Cover and Intervention. PLD is way better off in utility and still does nearly identical DPS to WAR.

[Ekimmak]

Yeah, Shake It Off alone doesn't match up to the utility of Paladin.

Especially since to match the strength of Divine Veil alone requires sacrificing a cooldown. Not always a good idea.

[Lyth]

I'm really struggling to see what utility you're talking about here. Do you just want a Passage of Arms clone? There are so many other places where WAR surpasses PLD in utility, such as mobility and knockback negation, and raid damage utility in the slashing debuff. Also, why compare just PLD and WAR? If utility should come at the cost of dps, then WAR should be behind both DRK and PLD in dps. Versatility is enough of a strength on its own.

It's odd that anyone would try to argue that SiO is weaker than DV. SiO doesn't require a proc. It applies to yourself. It has a 25% shorter recast. In magic heavy fights, you can consistently burn RI on it so that it is always more powerful than DV. It can take advantage of WAR's unique HP advantages from both Defiance and ToB. And if you really, really want to, you can make it more powerful than a Tank Limit Break 1.

To be honest, if you're finding that you're being outperformed on dps by your co-tank while playing WAR, it's entirely on you. As it was in Heavensward.

[ovIm]

While I do agree that Xeno does have a valid concern in the interview, Square should first push DRK a bit. Objectively, that job currently needs some buffs and adjustments more than WAR or PLD at this point.

[Launched]

There are so many other places where WAR surpasses PLD in utility, such as mobility and knockback negation, and raid damage utility in the slashing debuff.

Onslaught's mobility isn't utility, it doesn't help the group. It slightly increases your own DPS and that's it. Slashing debuff is also provided by SAM and NIN, most groups will have one of those.

Also, why compare just PLD and WAR?

Because WAR is worse than PLD overall, why should DRK come into the discussion at all?

It's odd that anyone would try to argue that SiO is weaker than DV. SiO doesn't require a proc. It applies to yourself. It has a 25% shorter recast. In magic heavy fights, you can consistently burn RI on it so that it is always more powerful than DV. It can take advantage of WAR's unique HP advantages from both Defiance and ToB. And if you really, really want to, you can make it more powerful than a Tank Limit Break 1.

It's a weaker shield unless you consume 2 cooldowns which means you're losing out on personal mitigation. Raidwide mitigation doesn't need to apply to the tank because we already have 10k+ HP over melee DPS. Not every fight is magic heavy. Divine Veil isn't PLD's only raidwide mitigation skill so Shake it Off is still available less often than DV/PoA.

You've also completely ignored Clemency, Cover and Intervention. Clemency is a heal as strong as Equilibrium that works on other people up to 5 casts in a row. Sure, you don't want to use it when you know a fight but it's great in progression. Cover's buff to work on all damage types and reduce damage makes it great for a lot of things, like straight mitigation, avoiding tank swaps, or fixing aggro problems during things like Aero III/Almagest. Intervention is a lot of free mitigation even when the PLD isn't tanking, especially if the other tank is a DRK to combine Sheltron/Intervention + TBN for a ton of free mitigation on every tankbuster.

To be honest, if you're finding that you're being outperformed on dps by your co-tank while playing WAR, it's entirely on you. As it was in Heavensward.

I don't play WAR anymore because it doesn't offer much. There's no reason for me to raid as WAR instead of PLD. Only buffing DRK isn't going to make WAR+DRK a great combo, it's just going to keep PLD as the tank with the guaranteed slot while WAR and DRK fight over the second slot.

[AziraSyuren]

Yeah, Shake It Off alone doesn't match up to the utility of Paladin.

Especially since to match the strength of Divine Veil alone requires sacrificing a cooldown. Not always a good idea.

I'm not going to get into another argument over what counts as utility and what utility actually matters balance-wise but I feel the need to address this in particular.

1. Warrior literally has too many cooldowns to use all of them in any fight this tier (except maybe Unending, which I haven't done).
2. In a lot of fights this tier, raidwides either happen shortly after a tank buster (Dimensional Wave), sufficiently far away from one that it doesn't really matter that much (Almagest, barring the very first one), or the tank busters in question are magical, meaning you could burn at least Raw Intuition at no real cost or risk (Twin Bolts, Aero III, and whatever it is that O2S uses).
3. It has the potential to even be vastly stronger than DV, although the opportunity cost isn't exactly worth it.

In practice, it's usually always as strong as or stronger than Divine Veil, and there's no risk associated with just straight up burning a CD.

[kidalutz]

run DRK for awhile. Then when you play WAR you wont complain as much.

[shao32]

hahah they say WAR is worse and dont offer much that a paladin, thats a good one, o wait.... they are being serious.

WAR is in a good spot now, best damage, best defensive set, and a new shinny shield that can be use to have a new personal magic shield or to help the party every 90 seconds, hey they have to sacrifice one CD to make it better that DV, pse speak the job with most defensive skills with shorter recast.

i have a question, how you feel being a human again fallen op god?.