Warriors need MORE damage

[whiskeybravo]

Would kind of defeat the point of minding them together, and, much more importantly, would make Warrior the go-to puller/MT.

Warrior is already the go-to puller?

I don't think separating their CD would make that much difference in the big scheme. You aren't going to open with berserk+unchained since you'd need to keep Berserk+IR timers lined up, and it'd still be better to be in deliverance with the +5%. So, the optimal opener would probably stay the same, it would only affect casuals like me that wait until SE or BB to switch to deliverance.

But, I personally still use unchained plenty in dungeons, you can use it once in a big pull and then it's back up for bosses so IMO it's not that big of a deal even as it is.

[DRKoftheAzure]

No need for more Warrior damage. But please make Unchained have a separate cooldown than Inner Release please please. That's the only "extra damage" I think Warriors should get.

Better yet have Unchained be a trait for Defiance and Inner beast also increases DPS by 20% for 20 seconds but is inflicted with pacification if it falls off(can be esuna'd)...

[Jukebox12]

Why are we even taking about warrior right now both war and pld are balance the only tank who isn't balance is dark knight which has less utility in terms should be doing more I do agree warrior needs something but right now dark is not balanced

[Shouko]

Next we will have threads on RDM, BLM, SAM, MNK wanting more dps/dmg.....oh wait, nvm.

[Ekimmak]

Yeah, Shake It Off alone doesn't match up to the utility of Paladin.

Especially since to match the strength of Divine Veil alone requires sacrificing a cooldown. Not always a good idea.

[AziraSyuren]

Yeah, Shake It Off alone doesn't match up to the utility of Paladin.

Especially since to match the strength of Divine Veil alone requires sacrificing a cooldown. Not always a good idea.

I'm not going to get into another argument over what counts as utility and what utility actually matters balance-wise but I feel the need to address this in particular.

1. Warrior literally has too many cooldowns to use all of them in any fight this tier (except maybe Unending, which I haven't done).
2. In a lot of fights this tier, raidwides either happen shortly after a tank buster (Dimensional Wave), sufficiently far away from one that it doesn't really matter that much (Almagest, barring the very first one), or the tank busters in question are magical, meaning you could burn at least Raw Intuition at no real cost or risk (Twin Bolts, Aero III, and whatever it is that O2S uses).
3. It has the potential to even be vastly stronger than DV, although the opportunity cost isn't exactly worth it.

In practice, it's usually always as strong as or stronger than Divine Veil, and there's no risk associated with just straight up burning a CD.

[Lyth]

I'm really struggling to see what utility you're talking about here. Do you just want a Passage of Arms clone? There are so many other places where WAR surpasses PLD in utility, such as mobility and knockback negation, and raid damage utility in the slashing debuff. Also, why compare just PLD and WAR? If utility should come at the cost of dps, then WAR should be behind both DRK and PLD in dps. Versatility is enough of a strength on its own.

It's odd that anyone would try to argue that SiO is weaker than DV. SiO doesn't require a proc. It applies to yourself. It has a 25% shorter recast. In magic heavy fights, you can consistently burn RI on it so that it is always more powerful than DV. It can take advantage of WAR's unique HP advantages from both Defiance and ToB. And if you really, really want to, you can make it more powerful than a Tank Limit Break 1.

To be honest, if you're finding that you're being outperformed on dps by your co-tank while playing WAR, it's entirely on you. As it was in Heavensward.

[Launched]

There are so many other places where WAR surpasses PLD in utility, such as mobility and knockback negation, and raid damage utility in the slashing debuff.

Onslaught's mobility isn't utility, it doesn't help the group. It slightly increases your own DPS and that's it. Slashing debuff is also provided by SAM and NIN, most groups will have one of those.

Also, why compare just PLD and WAR?

Because WAR is worse than PLD overall, why should DRK come into the discussion at all?

It's odd that anyone would try to argue that SiO is weaker than DV. SiO doesn't require a proc. It applies to yourself. It has a 25% shorter recast. In magic heavy fights, you can consistently burn RI on it so that it is always more powerful than DV. It can take advantage of WAR's unique HP advantages from both Defiance and ToB. And if you really, really want to, you can make it more powerful than a Tank Limit Break 1.

It's a weaker shield unless you consume 2 cooldowns which means you're losing out on personal mitigation. Raidwide mitigation doesn't need to apply to the tank because we already have 10k+ HP over melee DPS. Not every fight is magic heavy. Divine Veil isn't PLD's only raidwide mitigation skill so Shake it Off is still available less often than DV/PoA.

You've also completely ignored Clemency, Cover and Intervention. Clemency is a heal as strong as Equilibrium that works on other people up to 5 casts in a row. Sure, you don't want to use it when you know a fight but it's great in progression. Cover's buff to work on all damage types and reduce damage makes it great for a lot of things, like straight mitigation, avoiding tank swaps, or fixing aggro problems during things like Aero III/Almagest. Intervention is a lot of free mitigation even when the PLD isn't tanking, especially if the other tank is a DRK to combine Sheltron/Intervention + TBN for a ton of free mitigation on every tankbuster.

To be honest, if you're finding that you're being outperformed on dps by your co-tank while playing WAR, it's entirely on you. As it was in Heavensward.

I don't play WAR anymore because it doesn't offer much. There's no reason for me to raid as WAR instead of PLD. Only buffing DRK isn't going to make WAR+DRK a great combo, it's just going to keep PLD as the tank with the guaranteed slot while WAR and DRK fight over the second slot.

[ovIm]

While I do agree that Xeno does have a valid concern in the interview, Square should first push DRK a bit. Objectively, that job currently needs some buffs and adjustments more than WAR or PLD at this point.

[kidalutz]

run DRK for awhile. Then when you play WAR you wont complain as much.