Tank dps harrasment

[Xerek]

Shinryu is an example: Healers I've met who don't dps doesn't heal tank fast enough or the group, yet they didn't cast anything else but we tanks die. The irony they don't dps. Tanks who doesn't go in dps stance while tanking doesn't bother me much, but what bothers me is they spam aggro when it's truely not needed. Yes everyone CAN tank without tank stance and healers can dps. It doesnt matter if its 800 to 1k or even 500, they tried and thats okay. Once they get more used to the fight, they probably squeeze in more. Why is that for example the WHM I had in shinryu earlier did 1.6k dps and SCH did 118 yet the whm healed MORE than the SCH? Explain.

Shinryu normal or EX? My post specifically mentioned casual content. That's excluding EX/Savage. Did you fully read my post? I specifically mentioned so long as everyone lived, and the tanks held all the mobs. Yet, you make an example where people die. Your reply addresses nothing in my post. Please reread my post, I think you misread some or all of it.

Lol "expertise." You make it sound as if this is some sort of complex task. We're not talking 1%u0025 min-maxing here, there is a difference. Here's the steps to tank without tank stance.

1. Pull the boss and whack it.
2. Press the button for tank stance.
3. Use the same abilities you would normally use.
Congratulations, you are now tanking without tank stance.

If your brain somehow can't handle pressing one more button, once in a fight, (and somehow I highly doubt that) then just find another hobby. Please stop pretending everyone's this dumb and teach basic accountability.

Well, in this case it seems the answer to...

But what if, honestly, that is the best they can do? What if they can only play an hour a day, and haven't ground roulettes to tears? What if they struggle to keep up, not through laziness, but rather circumstance? Should we say, "Yeah, you kept aggro the whole way, but if you can't handle dropping into a DPS stance and adding some damage, you should GTFO!"? Or, "Yeah, nobody died, but if you can't handle adding a bit of DPS go find another game!"? Maybe, "I don't care if you're in your 60's and your fingers are arthritic, your DPS is sh!t! Give up and take up needlepoint, grandma!"?

...is "Yes, absolutely!" >.<

I never said, as you put it, "everyone's this dumb". I said multiple times in fact that there are some people slacking, phoning it in, and I don't support that in the least. It looks to me like you just skimmed my post before firing off a reply, rather then actually reading through it properly.

[Hierro]

how do you know when someone is doing their best and just struggling, or simply doing as little as possible on autopilot?

What about poor ol' grandpa with the aching hands? What about poor ol' timmy with cerebral palsy and their special headpiece? Come on. They don't make a quarter of bad tanks, or even a fraction of that. The chances that these people have a legitimate excuse to play poorly is abysmal. Besides, did I outline a complex process to DPS tanking? Seriously, all I outlined was turning on sword oath/deliverance/turning off grit. Just like that, your low-dps tank suddenly becomes a mediocre dps tank. Nowhere did I outline an increase to whatever APM these bad tanks have. If a shield oath pld wishes to spam their RoH combo all day, they can do so in sword oath just the same.

A SINGLE BUTTON PRESS DURING CASUAL BOSS ENCOUNTERS is all I ask for. Is that too much? Is it not lazy or ignorant to not do a button press?

[KaivaC]

The way threads like these split into multiple topics with multiple arguments over several issues makes me want to make a debate thread lol. At least once a month, we have these lively debates.

[Xerek]

What about poor ol' grandpa with the aching hands? What about poor ol' timmy with cerebral palsy and their special headpiece? Come on. They don't make a quarter of bad tanks, or even a fraction of that. The chances that these people have a legitimate excuse to play poorly is abysmal. Besides, did I outline a complex process to DPS tanking? Seriously, all I outlined was turning on sword oath/deliverance/turning off grit. Just like that, your low-dps tank suddenly becomes a mediocre dps tank. Nowhere did I outline an increase to whatever APM these bad tanks have. If a shield oath pld wishes to spam their RoH combo all day, they can do so in sword oath just the same.

A SINGLE BUTTON PRESS DURING CASUAL BOSS ENCOUNTERS is all I ask for. Is that too much? Is it not lazy or ignorant to not do a button press?

Or it's possible I drew every example directly from people I know, making your "abyssmal" odds claim seem a lot less plausible.

As for the one button, no. The flaw there is the claim they can still play the exact same. If said tank is stressed and struggling to hold aggro prior to the boss, I am fairly certain doing the exact same thing, pressing the exact same buttons in the exact same intervals would result in them losing aggro. You can suggest they play the same, popping cooldowns as needed and such, but that is not the same as clicking a button and doing things the exact same ways. If the tank is already stressed tanking the boss in shield stance, don't you think changing to DPS stance would make that apprehension all the worse? There is a measure of adaptation required. You may think such a thing easy enough, and for many players you'd be right. But not for all.

[KalinOrthos]

How about we just let other players play how they want to unless they are actively impeding your experience? Live and let live? And no, tanks staying in tank stance in an expert dungeon is not an active impediment. If anything, it's a slight delay in how fast you down a boss. I'm talking healers Rescuing you into fire, dead players not acceptibg raises, players deliberately missing mechanics, etc.

[Xerek]

How about we just let other players play how they want to unless they are actively impeding your experience? Live and let live? And no, tanks staying in tank stance in an expert dungeon is not an active impediment. If anything, it's a slight delay in how fast you down a boss. I'm talking healers Rescuing you into fire, dead players not acceptibg raises, players deliberately missing mechanics, etc.

This pretty much sums it up perfectly.

[MoroMurasaki]

How about we just let other players play how they want to unless they are actively impeding your experience? Live and let live? And no, tanks staying in tank stance in an expert dungeon is not an active impediment. If anything, it's a slight delay in how fast you down a boss. I'm talking healers Rescuing you into fire, dead players not acceptibg raises, players deliberately missing mechanics, etc.

Yeah!

Like a ThunderMage, or a RDM who never melees.... Or a PLD who only flashes.... Or an AST who never uses cards........ Or a SCH/SMN with no pet........

I mean where do you guys draw the line, honestly? Do you even have one?

The way threads like these split into multiple topics with multiple arguments over several issues makes me want to make a debate thread lol. At least once a month, we have these lively debates.

I 100% agree.

[Xerek]

I mean where do you guys draw the line, honestly? Do you even have one?

If you're asking that, it's clear you didn't read my prior reply. A PLD that only flashes is a far cry from a PLD that doesn't drop into DPS for dungeon bosses. For me, as long as the others in my casual content party can do their roles properly and are doing their best, I am fine if a tank stays in tank stance or a healer doesn't DPS. I am not going to attack them over it.

[Dualgunner]

Or it's possible I drew every example directly from people I know, making your "abyssmal" odds claim seem a lot less plausible.

So...anecdote.

[HoodRat]

If you're asking that, it's clear you didn't read my prior reply. A PLD that only flashes is a far cry from a PLD that doesn't drop into DPS for dungeon bosses. For me, as long as the others in my casual content party can do their roles properly and are doing their best, I am fine if a tank stays in tank stance or a healer doesn't DPS. I am not going to attack them over it.

So we're at "asking people to put in more effort is attacking them" now?