Tank dps harrasment

[Oscura]

Kay.
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Pretty much agreed, actually. I'm just irked right now over people not knowing what "burden of proof" entails.

Being petty and spiteful doesn't make you more correct than before, the sarcastic misquotes really speak volumes of your maturity.

If you're so irked, then deal with it. You're literally derailing an entire thread and your original argument just because you disagree with people on what "burden of proof," means. You even just admitted it. You're the one who brought up something without proof, no matter what you say it's just flat out hypocritical to expect other people to prove that you're incorrect when you never proved you were correct in the first place. Just stop.

Edit: "When two parties are in a discussion and one makes a claim that the other disputes, the one who makes the claim typically has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim especially when it challenges a perceived status quo."

In the context of philosophy, this is what it says for the "burden of proof." Guess who was the one who made a claim that others disputed, which challenged the status quo, as every other person who has replied disagreed with you?

"In a legal dispute, one party is initially presumed to be correct and gets the benefit of the doubt, while the other side bears the burden of proof."

In the context of a legal dispute. The problem is that you are not initially presumed to be correct to anyone but yourself, and no one has any reason to give you the benefit of the doubt. So aside from your self-importance, this definition is irrelevant.

[HyoMinPark]

I'm just irked right now over people not knowing what "burden of proof" entails.

We do know what “burden of proof” entails. You made the initial claim that companies will continue to hire employees based on less-than-favorable social media posts; even if people bring up situations to refute yours, you still need to provide proof that your argument is true. Hence why I said, the burden of proof lies with you.

Regardless, the analogy offered didn’t have anything to do with FFLogs, or the discussion at hand. FFLogs is only loosely related to the thread topic, only because said topic is about OP being kicked from Hunt LS and dungeons due to supposedly subpar DPS, and someone kicking them from a ShinEx group for having poor parses. Which, while it sucks, the PF leader can rightfully do that; it’s their PF, their rules.

[K3KW4RCHILD]

Oh DPS, how I love thee. Let me count the ways...

1. If you’re not in a static and find yourself in a group with a tank that tanks, first go roll a tank of your very own.

2. STFU, put your head down and just do your jerb... If you really cared about tank dps, you should go git gud and show everyone how a “real” tank does it.

3. Rick James would say: “EFF yo dps logs!” If you were playing for fun, you would turn that trash off and grind out your duty assignments. Nobody made you roll dps and only you care about the size of your dps e-peen.

4. Stop whining and crying about your awesome dps queue times.

Signed,
I’m having a blasty blast — you’re not.

[KaivaC]

Why doesn't it? If you ask me, the problem isn't that people aren't top 10% of their class, the problem is that people are unwilling to give the small amount of effort it takes to do more than the bare minimum. And if you can't do more than the bare minimum in casual content, why should people expect you to be successful in harder content?

I hear what you're saying, but nobody's talking about doing the bare minimum. Unless you're suggesting that in casual content, staying in tank stance equates nothing but bare minimum. Because pulling mobs still requires the tank to spam some enmity combos and AOEs to keep their hate. There are a lot of players who are not comfortable stance dancing - especially when it comes to duty finder PUGs. You don't know that the healer can keep you alive. Hell, there aren't many groups who can handle the first big Bardam's Mettle pull before the first set of stone adds while in DPS stance. But regardless, this is getting away from the core of the original subject.

[Dualgunner]

Oh DPS, how I love thee. Let me count the ways...

1. If you’re not in a static and find yourself in a group with a tank that tanks, first go roll a tank of your very own.

2. STFU, put your head down and just do your jerb... If you really cared about tank dps, you should go git gud and show everyone how a “real” tank does it.

3. Rick James would say: “EFF yo dps logs!” If you were playing for fun, you would turn that trash off and grind out your duty assignments. Nobody made you roll dps and only you care about the size of your dps e-peen.

4. Stop whining and crying about your awesome dps queue times.

Signed,
I’m having a blasty blast — you’re not.

1. That makes no sense, and no.
2. My job's quite well taken care of. I do my best to be the best in every party I'm in.
3. >2017
>Rick James joke
4. No.

Signed,
You Don't Pay My Sub

[Wanzer]

Reminds me of my first dungeon as a DRK. I was still getting used to the skills.
I never lost hate, never died, and I thought we were moving at a good pace.

But after the 2nd boss, two of the players, who I assumed join together, randomly said "Sorry" and left at the same time. The healer, who stayed, was like "What!? Why did they leave??"
I'm assuming it was because I was in my tank stance the entire time.
I never knew I should switch in an out. After that I asked around to find out why they would leave, and found out I should have not been using my tank stance. /shrug

Still, two new DPS joined right away, we finished without incident, and I got 2 player comms.

If they've taken the time to say sorry, I'm not quite sure it had something to do with your tanking actually, or even this very subject. Maybe they simply had something else to do somewhere else. No need to blame yourself by searching a reason why they left, or even blame someone else. It happens.

Usually when people are angry about something they talk shit or just leave with no word, but I've never heard "sorry" in that kind of situation. ^^'

[KaivaC]

Oh DPS, how I love thee. Let me count the ways...

1. If you’re not in a static and find yourself in a group with a tank that tanks, first go roll a tank of your very own.

2. STFU, put your head down and just do your jerb... If you really cared about tank dps, you should go git gud and show everyone how a “real” tank does it.

3. Rick James would say: “EFF yo dps logs!” If you were playing for fun, you would turn that trash off and grind out your duty assignments. Nobody made you roll dps and only you care about the size of your dps e-peen.

4. Stop whining and crying about your awesome dps queue times.

Signed,
I’m having a blasty blast — you’re not.

???

What does this have to do with anything at all that has been discussed in this thread?

[HazyAssaulter]

Oh DPS, how I love thee. Let me count the ways...

1. If you’re not in a static and find yourself in a group with a tank that tanks, first go roll a tank of your very own.

2. STFU, put your head down and just do your jerb... If you really cared about tank dps, you should go git gud and show everyone how a “real” tank does it.

All my comments in this thread have been as a paladin main who has cleared through O4S in PUGs, so I'm really not sure what you are on about.

[Lodinn]

Yes, it's so easy that you've had no problem clearing Savage or Extreme Trials, have you? That Lakshmi clear is real impressive.

OFs, the real savage content in this game.

The entire thread is pure gold.
As for the start, I've never ever seen tank kicked out of a dungeon for low dps. That's ridiculous. Probably problem was elsewhere (except if OP was spamming flash. I just pray he wasn't. Even if that's the case, 2 dps and a healer, especially in expert, make a quick job of trash packs if they know where their aoe buttons are. Tank refusing to pull more is more painful but realistically no one wants to wait for the replacement anyway. X.).
I'll be drawing personal judgement, sure, but there will be no benefit of doubt if they fail mechanics badly and they'll be receiving extra attention with regards to performance (checking whether it's a healbot etc).

That all being said, bad dps and low CPM healers are the worst. Skill gap between bare bottom and mediocre performance for tanks is somewhat smaller.
Finally, getting painfully slow dungeon runs is upsetting but there's usually no better thing to do than just do your own job and maaaybe in some niche cases give advice (usually it doesn't come out right anyway so oh well. Telling people how to aoe is apparently an offense because they *should* know how to play their classes no worse than you do and you are telling them they're wrong. When it comes to this i just hope the right message comes across).
As for fflogs/screening... Imagine another situation (a real one) when i'm not digging logs but instead some friend(s) i'm playing with say something of sorts "OMG that healer/tank/SAM/whatever who just joined, he's pure garbage". I usually ask for details and don't mind letting them (or myself, on a basis of being trash as well) getting carried but if things don't go well he'd likely be first in line to get the boot.

[F_Maximillian]

What's with all the armchair lawyers popping up on this forum lately? Throwing around terms like "burden of proof" in attempts to look more sophisticated or something? Anyway, for 90% (probably higher but near 2am me ballparks it at 90%) of the content in this game you don't need to push dps to clear it at all, or clear it comfortably even. People kicking you from dungeons and hunts (especially hunts where aggro means more than damage itself) is stupid and I'm sure most people agree with that. For things like extreme primals and up that's where people start drawing the line in the sand and start setting expectations for performance.

Party leaders are entitled to set whatever requirements for joining they wish to (even those ridiculous lootmaster in order of joining groups people seem to somehow be dumb enough to indulge) and if you don't fit those standards then join another party. While I feel like extreme primals are on the easier side of things if you've done it enough to get the mount and all those weapons but your numbers showed up gray that would be a bit of a red flag for me. I wouldn't kick anyone for it and I generally don't care who joins groups for extreme primals as long as they perform at somewhat basic proficiency at their classes and at the mechanics. People who hide their logs however are a particularly big red flag for me because it means that they're aware of sites like fflogs and would prefer to hide their information rather than show notable improvement so people are willing to look over those not so great logs.

This is a game and people are more than entitled to play how they want to but understand there's 3-7 other people in your groups that have their own goals and things they get out of the game that you may be impacting. Not every expert roulette has to be a 15 minute run and you don't have to top logs on every single fight but even taking that first step forward from the bare minimum will improve the experience for you and those you meet, not to mention reduce the added sodium from people you join. You can blame logs and bad situations (I have plenty of bad parses up from situations where my group caused me to do horribly or I was simply playing badly that day) but at the end of the day it feels like people just don't want to be accountable so they scapegoat instead of looking to themselves to see what they can do better. I'm sorry that you had a bad experience but perhaps instead of hiding logs and blaming people you should look to improve so people have nothing to complain about or play with friends that don't care either way.