Tank dps harrasment

[Avatre]

but you should also know when you need to throw in an extra hate combo or swap back into stance to regain more of a hate lead.

Which, lets face it, quite a few tanks do NOT know how to do it. And they are also the ones that end up dropping the tank stance because "some other tank-main told me that tank stance isn't needed". I've lost count the number of times, while using Diversion/Lucid/whatever other agro dump I have, that I've stolen hate from a tank because "muh deeps"

[HoodRat]

Which, lets face it, quite a few tanks do NOT know how to do it. And they are also the ones that end up dropping the tank stance because "some other tank-main told me that tank stance isn't needed". I've lost count the number of times, while using Diversion/Lucid/whatever other agro dump I have, that I've stolen hate from a tank because "muh deeps"

And I've lost count the number of times I outdps actual dps players as a tank. If they're not gonna contribute to dps, someone has to. :^)

[akaneakki]

Which, lets face it, quite a few tanks do NOT know how to do it. And they are also the ones that end up dropping the tank stance because "some other tank-main told me that tank stance isn't needed". I've lost count the number of times, while using Diversion/Lucid/whatever other agro dump I have, that I've stolen hate from a tank because "muh deeps"

I will say this. If a tank dies to auto attack, the healer is bad. If a healer spends 60% of the time not clicking buttons, they are bad. If a tank knows how to push his limit both keeping aggro, doing damage while rotating cds for tank buster hes good. If a tank spams aggro all day even when hes tank stance, hes not great, hes not good either, hes just okay. Why do you want to spam aggro combo when its already 90% above everyone else? So you can ''do your job''? Aggro is already far ahead, why are you going to prove you can keep aggro even more when it's not really needed? Also in roulettes well expert, I do keep my tank stance up for trash so healer can go hard on dps, while on PLD i even clemency myself so the whm can spam more holy, that way trash dies faster. Don't give me the ''only save 2 min'', not really. Ive done drowning city of skalla 35 min vs 18 min, so its like half of the time more with a bad group. Yes I know its just an expert, but it's about time really. People have work, other hobbies to do, family etc, saving that 15 min everyday will give you a lot more time than you think it will.

[DeaconMoore]

You put next to no extra pressure on the group if you know what you're doing. Smart cooldown usage, knowing when busters or heavy hits are coming, self healing, all make you functionally no different than a tank in tank stance to your healers.

DPS should be appropriately managing their threat in the first place (threat drops, diversion) but you should also know when you need to throw in an extra hate combo or swap back into stance to regain more of a hate lead.

I play healer and this is not true in Expert. It doesn't put any pressure and I can DPS just fine. A tank that knows how to swap stances will have their aggro sorted out. Ultimately, DPS jobs have aggro managing skills.

Yes, accidents can happen, but it's not as bad as you make it look. Some people might make mistakes but some of them are also learning, which implies that they will f*** up at some point.

And neither of you read I was responding to the guy saying the stance is effectively worthless. It's the details you have to keep track of when tanking a smooth run for the group and your missing that point illustrates peoples tendency to miss the finer points and tunnel.

Yes, DPS should watch their aggro, DPS never watches their aggro 100% of the time. And I wasn't saying you shouldn't ever leave tank stance to get some extra DPS, I was saying it's not the tanks primary job to do that and that they should be mindful of what is going on around them when they do.

And sorry but yes, a tanks health bar suddenly dropping faster, with their threat lead dropping does put extra pressure on the group. How much is subjective to the situation but it's their nonetheless.

[Arkturius]

Not really. When you drop tank stance as the MT you're putting more pressure on the rest of the group. Dps can't afford not to watch their threat, healers end up spending more time healing you than dpsing themselves, and if things go south and you mess up not going back into tank stance in time thx to gcd
I like seeing big numbers next to my name as much as anyone else but chasing big dps numbers isn't the tanks job. That's just icing on the cake for them.

you put 0 pressure on the rest of the group outside of an initial hate combo in stance you can literally drop stance and just straight dps or aoe even in dungeons (initial pull grab all mobs in tank stance then do an aoe rotation for emnity then drop stance and go ham it is literally as easy as it is for kids to eat mud/glue this isn't even a discussion)

[HoodRat]

it is literally as easy as it is for kids to eat mud/glue this isn't even a discussion)

On that note, when I first started raiding, I would sit in tank stance when I had aggro. After I felt more comfortable, I would just go into dps stance without warning, and after the clear ask the healers if they noticed a difference...most of the time they didn't. And actually, I joined a different group a couple months ago. I had to relearn basically every fight because I switched to war and in my previous group we had a pld who just had to mt every moment possible. Even when I didn't know exactly what I was doing, I would try to be in dps stance as long as possible, and I would always feel bad about it because I thought that I was putting extra stress on the healers...but then I found out that even then my healers were doing about 2k dps each.

[HazyAssaulter]

I've noticed on several occasions that there are people that will be rude to the tank for little to no reason. In one instance, I remember a black mage giving the tank crap because they were not chain pulling, as if they didn't have enough time to run a dungeon.

It's not that people are out to get tanks. If a tank is chain pulling and the DPS aren't using their AoE tools, the DPS are going to get flack too. Anyone that is consciously playing in a way that wastes everyone else's time is being inconsiderate.

[Doki]

I'll solo hunt mobs in tank stance and get full credit so whatever!

[Arkturius]

I'll solo hunt mobs in tank stance and get full credit so whatever!

threads about people crying over pretty much normal stuff/nothing make me happy =D

[KaldeaSahaline]

This has been an incredibly enjoyable read. Rather than multi-quote every single ignorant person I'll just echo some highlights.

1) To ANYONE who thinks FFLogs has no context and is merely just numbers. You are 100% wrong. It tracks everything that happens in the fight. It knows how much you're in tank stance, it knows how much you were afk not casting, and it knows how you died, and what led up to it (be it your fault, or a healing issue. It knows that you're not using oGCD's well or lining up buffs at good times. It has tons of context, what it doesn't have is patience for people who make excuses or lie because the data is there for all to see.

2) Hiding your logs is not a good thing. Logs are a lot like credit in that no credit is infinitely worse than bad credit. I have yet to encounter a single person who hides their logs who wasn't bad at the game. Not a single one. If you care about doing content where you will be screened then improve your gameplay. If you don't care, then what a website says about you doesn't matter because you only do participation trophy content anyway.

3) I 100% believe that the OP is not telling us the whole story about her repeatedly being kicked in participation trophy content. I really shouldn't have to explain my reasons on that one. You know what they say, it may not be the community if you're the common denominator.

I would have liked FFLogs to have the ability to track ilvl like warcraftlogs does to give a little additional context, but alas it does not.