Tank Stances, Traited

[Reynhart]

A single cleave or swipe is not going to be fatal to any player, but repeatedly standing the area in which those occur will be. That is what i meant by "if they do not move away"

If you die by staying in front of a cleave, you deserve to die. And, again, DPS and healers are already OS by those kinds of attacks...

So, in your mind.. if it doesn't freeze or debuff, not moving out of the AoE and just keeping swinging because it isn't going to do any damage to you isn't ignoring a mechanic?

No, it's being a dick to your healer to save some pitiful damage.

And you can't tell me that you would still want to avoid it, because you wouldn't. You wouldn't have to put in the effort because the damage it does to you would be negligible, and the tanking community has already shown that if the damage incurred is negligible, they would prefer to dps over mitigate (that's how this whole discussion got started because tanks would rather have higher constant dps than higher mitigation at the cost of dps).

But by taking damage you could have avoided, you reduce the healer's DPS, who should do more than you if you have your tank stance up. And if you don't have the stance up, then you'd take the same damage from that AoE as you do now.

[Dio_Tiferet]

Although the concept of tank stances is interesting and adds to strategy/gameplay FFXIV's main focus always revolves around DPS and because of that tanks will avoid tankstance like the plague.

Simply put tankstances dont work with the way this game is designed unfortunately it only adds to elitism and locking abilities behind tankstance only incites more resentment towards it.'

I'd like to see them redesign tanking without stances in the future if only to get rid of the toxic attitude and give tanks access to their full moveset with proper depth in it to reward skilled players.

This will also make emnity generators/combo's more important/indepth and not make NIN mandatory in every high-end comp.

[Reynhart]

Although the concept of tank stances is interesting and adds to strategy/gameplay FFXIV's main focus always revolves around DPS and because of that tanks will avoid tankstance like the plague.

Again, the game does not revole around personal DPS. If, by sacrificing your own DPS, you could increase someone else's to compensate, there's no reason to not do it if you want.
But, for now, the added mitigation does not add an apprioriate amount of raid DPS (i.e healer's DPS) for what you lose as personal DPS.

[Dio_Tiferet]

Again, the game does not revole around personal DPS. If, by sacrificing your own DPS, you could increase someone else's to compensate, there's no reason to not do it if you want.
But, for now, the added mitigation does not add an apprioriate amount of raid DPS (i.e healer's DPS) for what you lose as personal DPS.

True but only to an extend even without tankstance good tanks i will mitigate enough so for healers to keep up.

The dps gain from turning tankstance off by far outweighs a few healer GCD's and when you add item level increase / overhealing into the equation dropping tankstance will always come out on top over having a healer heal a tiny bit more.

Of course all this is obvious or we would not be in this current predicament that''s why even though i like the stances im in favor of removing it it is affecting the game in too many negative ways.

[Reynhart]

The dps gain from turning tankstance off by far outweighs a few healer GCD's and when you add item level increase / overhealing into the equation dropping tankstance will always come out on top over having a healer heal a tiny bit more.

If your tank stance would make you take half damage (or increase HP and healing received by 100%) all the time, we wouldn't be looking at "few healer's GCD"

[Dio_Tiferet]

If your tank stance would make you take half damage (or increase HP and healing received by 100%) all the time, we wouldn't be looking at "few healer's GCD"

That would not matter as long as the enemies do not enforce tankstance and doing so would mean having to completely rework every enemy and that is not going to happen.

With 50% mitigation on stance you might as well remove every defensive cooldown in the game.

[Reynhart]

That would not matter as long as the enemies do not enforce tankstance

Why is that ?

[shao32]

Here is the thing even the developers you have been on record saying they dislike the idea behind tanks tanking in a dps stance.

i say im disagreed with this, SE put effort on adress tanks tanking outside of tank stance, we can start talking on heavensward when is this thing really statrted, SE nerf tank DPS over all shuting down the srt meta with that means less agro on dps stance, and the reduce PLD damage penalty from shield 20% to 15%, they could just buff PLD emity if they want but they reduce tank stance penalty plus give us acc bonus on it, worthless but it was there.

incoming to stormblood we started the expansion not only with a gauge penalty on WAR and PLD but with several ajustmens on DPS agro and defensive capabilities, self healing to be more precise and complety abolish WAR spaming butcher combo for max dps, and in fact will be imposible keep agro if isnt was for shirk with im pretty sure is not desing to be use like that, shirk is a amaizing tool for tank swaps, we actually need something like that in the past but the actual desing is a bit broken.

so SE really made ajustments to adress this but wasnt enough, there is not choice, dps stance is the optimal way, tanking on tank stance is like being a dragoon who dont use heavy trust (the old one not the actual), i will agreed limit options is bad only is both options are equal on performance, but the reality is DPS tanking is absurdly more better than tanking on tank stance and when for some reasonwhen you need stance dance like on OS4 or for watever weird reason in the middle of the run some tanks suffer a lot more that others, here is where we inster the extra penaltys on PLD and specially DRK.

for me having 2 ways of tanking is bad and should be fixed, more when the other "option" its just a excuse to play bad or lazy.

[Dio_Tiferet]

Why is that ?

Because tanks or not going to use tankstance unless they are forced to and incoming tank damage would have to be increased significantly for that and not in the shape of boss abilities since we can use defensive cooldowns for those.

[Reynhart]

Because tanks or not going to use tankstance unless they are forced to and incoming tank damage would have to be increased significantly for that and not in the shape of boss abilities since we can use defensive cooldowns for those.

That's not true. If using tank stance allows the same overall raid DPS (Just spread differently), then it's just a personal preference of you (and the healer) as who should push its DPS while the other only focus on its core responsibility.