Black Mage

[Remedi]

Well with Ultimate clared and the comments from the guys who took WF we could start saying some things about all of that don't you think?

[IllyriaKnotfred]

Well with Ultimate clared and the comments from the guys who took WF we could start saying some things about all of that don't you think?

Not really, no. You can't balance jobs by difficult content like that. Its simply just not possible.

[Remedi]

I disagree there are some things that could be said tbh and some conclusions that could be expected from the future tbh, I wasn't talking about simply balance but more about context.
Also talking never hurts.

[IllyriaKnotfred]

The issue is that every suggestion has been more or less made already. The numbers speak for themselves from 0-99% parses. SMN stomps on BLM in all of them. Many suggestions have been made in this thread on how to improve BLM without sacrificing it's identity. Personally I feel the first step is simply giving us back the 20 potency SE stole from Fire/Bliz IV at the start of Stormblood. It was completely unwarranted and i'll never understand why they did it.

[Cynfael]

Not really, no. You can't balance jobs by difficult content like that. Its simply just not possible.

Agreed. WF teams are outliers; you don't get a proper picture of overall class balance by examining a small set of encounters executed by the best-coordinated and most practiced teams of players.

Besides, (reasonable) arguments for balance rarely allege that a Job is completely non-viable. There is a huge difference between "X Job can't do this" and "X Job is at risk of being underplayed because it consistently underperforms compared to Y and Z Jobs in the same scenario."

[TsuKoj]

Sure we could, isn't that the goal? Imo if a job isn't good for the highest level of available content, it isn't well balanced.
Anyways theres not much to say from the tweet since all it said was they changed jobs to clear it faster specifically, and it's doable by non-optimal comps, and caster players(specifically smn) don't have to switch to brd to clear. All of that info is already known, but just because a job is viable doesn't make it balanced. It should be fun, and while being fun includes having an smooth rotation it also includes challenge, desirability, and being able to fulfill its intended purpose/having a purpose. I like the blms rotation, and I love that blms challenge is in fighting and executing the fight rather than fighting against my rotation. But, atm blm has no desirability and no purpose to it. It brings nothing unique to the party that isn't filled by another class doing it better.

[Remedi]

I agree, what they said does not change anything for us truly, I'm a bit torn on the fact that they first say that they had to go meta for the kill but they also advise you to go with w/e you find fun tbh, no gonna call them out for this but it kinda stings.
I think they wanted to say that the true meta is playing your A game in the end but they didn't commit fully.

I do believe that BLMs can clear this content, I did saw some BLMs putting nice numbers and honestly I think that we can also work the movements of the fight
This however doesn't change our status, actually we are in a greater pickle

Why? Remember what Yoshida said about ultimate? They said that it would be a very hard fight for BLMs. This means that they expect very few BLMs clears of this content, which probably will translate with them not really tacking a look to the job.

And personally I don't think that 20 potency buff will cut it as we have already said we kinda lack that synergy with group buffs or 2 min CDS, actually we really lack a burst option.
Maybe I'm overdramatizing but this is why i think we should be as active as ever to make our voice be heard

[Cynfael]

Sure we could, isn't that the goal? Imo if a job isn't good for the highest level of available content, it isn't well balanced.
Anyways theres not much to say from the tweet since all it said was they changed jobs to clear it faster specifically, and it's doable by non-optimal comps, and caster players(specifically smn) don't have to switch to brd to clear. All of that info is already known, but just because a job is viable doesn't make it balanced. It should be fun, and while being fun includes having an smooth rotation it also includes challenge, desirability, and being able to fulfill its intended purpose/having a purpose. I like the blms rotation, and I love that blms challenge is in fighting and executing the fight rather than fighting against my rotation. But, atm blm has no desirability and no purpose to it. It brings nothing unique to the party that isn't filled by another class doing it better.

I can't speak for Illyria, but what I'm alluding to is that some players inevitably come up with arguments like "DRK doesn't need help because it was used in WF." You can't discount that kind of argument without also discounting the argument that a given Job is disadvantaged because it isn't chosen in a WF comp.

What you can do is look beyond this handful of players in this one encounter and examine the frequency with which Jobs are selected and how they perform. I am an avid BLM and dearly want to see the Job made more competitive, but WF scenarios don't provide the kind of data or enough of it to support the argument for BLM (or any other Job) improvement.

[EllieShadeflare]

Having to transpose is never "no biggie" it's a huge dps loss and on top of it it makes me feel bad and like I messed up everytime I am forced to do it.

...It's... really not? Let me put it this way of comparison.

You can either.

Lose Enochian for 30s+ because you missed a single cast of Blizzard IV, and hurt your rotation PERMANENTLY.

Or.

Never lose Enochian so long as you have your Astral Fire and Umbral Ice timers up? Transpose feels bad, yes, but how much worse is it to lose your ENTIRE ROTATION because you had to move or because of lag versus "oh, whoops, I don't have enough time to blizzard 3 and I'm low on my Astral Fire timer! No biggie. Blizzard IV, Fire III, back in business. Damage loss be darned."

Trust me, this is a better designed system. And considering the fact that Blizzard IV gives us our old opener as our ROTATION, and our new opener can have two more Fire IVs for more death... Well... I dunno about you, but it's looking fine from where I'm sitting in O3S.

And I had np maintaining enochian through Neverreap, but if I manage to keep it up through Ala Mhigo's first boss I can count myself lucky.

...If you're struggling to keep Enochian against the Scorpion, well... That may be a sign that you might not be using Enochian right and letting your Astral Fire and Umbral Ice fall off.

I mean, no offense, but that first boss really isn't that difficult so this may be a bit of a you thing. Granted, Neverreap may be a "me thing" but... Well, the first and third bosses have invincibility phases and don't really play very nicely to Black Mage's original "turret or fail" gameplay style that was far clunkier than it used to be. In fact, a friend of mine who absolutely loathed Black Mage for its clunky HW design has taken to praising the SB one simply because of the changes to Enochian.

I mean, I don't intend on this being an attack or anything, but... From my experience as a Black Mage main, I'm certain that BLM is in one of its best spots since A Realm Reborn.

[Lunafreya]

Anyone know the optimal blm set up this patch? Is it direct hit over crit or crit over direct hit? Any bis?