Built-in Parsers

[Deithwen]

Providing an in game parser is not "allowing douchy behavior". It also doesn't prevent people "To have fun" because "It's a game".
If someone wants to use a parser for their personal improvement, and happen to play on PS4, they can't right now.

And yet you use those statements as arguments against parsers and if there was a logic behind.

[BigRed5392]

Are we playing the same game ? I can find so many examples where this statement is wrong, but I just feel you don't know what you're talking about.

no win scenario is when if you don't do something you can't progress. 1 mistake from 1 person doesn't cause a wipe. the whole group needs to make mistakes to cause a wipe.

did you not read the whole post? just asking because you pulled 1 line and using it to insult me rather looking at the post as a whole. This is the type of stuff I'm talking about the petty behavior over a difference in opinion.

[Deithwen]

the whole group needs to make mistakes to cause a wipe.

There it is again. You don't know what you're talking about.
And I am not insulting you oO

Your statement is not an opinion, it's a fasle fact, I'm just pointing it out. When you say "one person can't cause a wipe", this is not just not true, and I can find many fights in this game where your statement is false. No insults here, just facts.

[Aster_E]

Providing an in game parser is not "allowing douchy behavior". It also doesn't prevent people "To have fun" because "It's a game".
If someone wants to use a parser for their personal improvement, and happen to play on PS4, they can't right now.

And yet you use those statements as arguments against parsers and if there was a logic behind.

No, of course one thing such as an in-game parser is not enough on its own, even as it gives elitists a means to say "This is in the game now, so you better learn to use it!" Can you say in utmost honesty that no such thing will happen? Some folks already try to lord it over other people, which is presently against the game's Terms of Service, and for good reason. Then there is the all likelihood that the one thing--the in-game parser--is part of a slippery slope that I'm sure other more experienced MMO players can tell you about.

Things that elite players and wannabe elitists alike both want added or taken away.

Less time and resources given to non-raid content, save for generic collectibles, fetch quests, et cetera, because the already limited size of Team Yoshi is too focused on providing for the one type of player as opposed to the millions of players who enjoyed the game until that point.

What I stated was not an argument but, rather, a summation of arguments, oversimplified, to yield something resembling my opinion on the matter. From Yoshida's comments on parsers in the past, I suspect that he's in the same line of thinking there. In fact, he quite possibly has more details in mind than I do on the matter, just like other more experienced players of MMOs.

Again, a parse is fine as a tool for self-improvement, but there are people who can and will abuse the parser to the nth degree should we have an in-game parser. There are people already who try with fflogs. Not one person, but several people. Give them an inch/ilm, and they'll take more than a yard/yalm. Once they do, then things will become progressively worse for everyone else.

That's all the more I'm going to say on that.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

So all that not having a built-in parser creates is a disadvantageous enviroment for ps4 players and PC players who can not run parsers since they can be kinda buggy at times(there is a friend of mine who can not get ACT to work no matter what).

Once again, I contend that in all these 4 years, I've never been at a disadvantage for not having a parser, or the ability to use one as a PS4 player. Have there been times I could do better? Definitely. But I've always been far from underperforming, simply because I made the effort to be good.

While this sounds like a brag, don't take it as such: someone recently referred to me as "legendary", which I found a bit odd. Then I remembered that they didn't see all the trial and error I put in, or the hours spent on striking dummies, practicing, refining, literally using the information given to me right before my eyes to figure out how to do it better and better all this time.

Sure, this is where one might say "But a parser can. . ." Yes, it can. But where I can't use it, I simply bricked my way up. It's not impossible. And while it's not easy, anyone who makes the effort can do it. Remaining neutral on the matter, the game can be played at a high level without one, and for that reason they aren't needed. Helpful, no disputing that, but not necessary to do well. If it were, PS4 players would already have a means to utilize one, or an official one would've been implemented by now. But I can't say it enough; I am NOT disadvantaged for being unable to parse just because I'm on PS4. Let's please stop using that as a talking point.

[Deithwen]

snip

Of course some people will abuse it and that's why there is are report /black list means.
As it's been suggested in this thread, enabling parsers for premades in high difficulty content such as savage, utimate or maybe extreme primals and limiting it's use to these only would be a solution to limit bad behaviour.

Also, I feel you have a very binary vision about players who use parsers and fflogs, as if they were all the same "bad" people and "elitists".

just a few questions, wouldn't you want to know how you performed in a fight ? Or, during progression, being able to see what caused a wipe, what can be improved, why the dps check wasn't reached ? There are informations only a parser can provide, and regarding FFlogs, it's an extremly powerfull tool that's not limited to an "epeen" scale.

[BigRed5392]

Of course some people will abuse it and that's why there is are report /black list means.
As it's been suggested in this thread, enabling parsers for premades in high difficulty content such as savage, utimate or maybe extreme primals and limiting it's use to these only would be a solution to limit bad behaviour.

Also, I feel you have a very binary vision about players who use parsers and fflogs, as if they were all the same "bad" people and "elitists".

just a few questions, wouldn't you want to know how you performed in a fight ? Or, during progression, being able to see what caused a wipe, what can be improved, why the dps check wasn't reached ? There are informations only a parser can provide, and regarding FFlogs, it's an extremly powerfull tool that's not limited to an "epeen" scale.

explain how people plated mmo before the parser.... as mmo existed before a parser. It isn't hard to figure stuff out on your own with out a parser.

you can get all that info by communicating with the party, ask if anyone had issues that may have caused them to mess up their rotation. No need for a parser, no need to kick ppl out.

There it is again. You don't know what you're talking about.
And I am not insulting you oO

Your statement is not an opinion, it's a fasle fact, I'm just pointing it out. When you say "one person can't cause a wipe", this is not just not true, and I can find many fights in this game where your statement is false. No insults here, just facts.

assuming i don't know what I'm talking about is an insult though, as i can find and have experienced fights that 1 person isn't the issue.

1) did the group communicate? if no they are part of the issue

2) is the healer healing no matter what? if no then the healer is at fault.

3) is the tank tanking no matter what? if no the tank is at fault.

4) did the leader explain the strategy to be used? if no, they are at fault

i can go on. JP don't seem to have an issue with doing any of these... whats the NA community issue? I rarely see people communicate, I rarely see healers heal regardless, i rarely see tanks tank regardless.

I see people with a vote kick trigger finger. I see people pointing fingers. I see people name and shame.

[Deithwen]

Finding fights where one person isn't the issue is not proving that it's always the case.

Finding fights where one person can be the issue and cause the wipe is, on the other hand, proving that very point.

Assuming the four points you described above are all met. And yet one person fails to apply it, either by lack of skill, tunnel vision, or simply because that person lied ? isn't that person at fault ?


take coil T9 for instance, imagine a person constantly fails to place meteors and put them too close to others, leading to an intant wipe. This is a case where a single person can cause a wipe.
Take Exdeath now, savage version, one dps is overwhelmed by the mecanics and just fails to provide the expected DPS to clear it before enrage. No death, no fails at mecanics, but the dps requirement isn't met, leading to constant wipes over and over. This is again a case where a single person can cause a wipe.

And I coudl go on and on.

[BigRed5392]

Finding fights where one person isn't the issue is not proving that it's always the case.

Finding fights where one person can be the issue and cause the wipe is, on the other hand, proving that very point.

Assuming the four points you described above are all met. And yet one person fails to apply it, either by lack of skill, tunnel vision, or simply because that person lied ? isn't that person at fault ?


take coil T9 for instance, imagine a person constantly fails to place meteors and put them too close to others, leading to an intant wipe. This is a case where a single person can cause a wipe.
Take Exdeath now, savage version, one dps is overwhelmed by the mecanics and just fails to provide the expected DPS to clear it before enrage. No death, no fails at mecanics, but the dps requirement isn't met, leading to constant wipes over and over. This is again a case where a single person can cause a wipe.

And I could go on and on.

was meteor placement talked about? if not group issue.


and my point would equally be proven, if i found fights that it was a group issue. Which in my experience they are. Not once have i seen enrage because of low dps. I see wipes from healers not healing.

at any point the group could have communicated, they did not. So it really the groups fault in the end. They could have better explained why double stacking meteors is bad. They coulda explained the savage mechanics better.

instead of looking at just "oh you made a mistake, and we wipe you suck /kick" look to WHY they were making the mistakes. More often then not it is because people are not communicating well.

ff11 never had much issue, jp player never had much issue. so why is NA having much issue?

instead of pointing fingers, talk out the problem, because in reality all you are showing me is. you using parser and low dps as excuses to kick ppl, instead of communicating out issues.

[Estelle9lives]

no win scenario is when if you don't do something you can't progress. 1 mistake from 1 person doesn't cause a wipe. the whole group needs to make mistakes to cause a wipe..

While I can confirm what you said is true regarding JP servers and how they tend to handle strategies (macro and such), this statement you insist on making is just false. I mean no offense at all, but it doesn't seem like you do content where these things DO happen. I can mention some examples to you, from this raid tier, where a single person making a mistake can wipe the whole party:

- A DPS fails to do Unstable Gravity in O2S. This causes a nuke to go off that will almost certainly kill both healers. If you don't have a RDM/SMN it's a wipe.
- Anyone failing game table in O3S. This is recoverable now that we overgear it, but at i320 it was basically a surefire wipe (Damage Down + Infirmity + Vulnerability Up for a long ass time packed on a fight with a tight enrage)
- Anyone messing up their positioning during Grand Cross Omega on O4S - specially healers as this is followed by Almagest (hard hitting raid buster).
- A healer failing to do chains in Shinryu Ex can cause both healers dying.
- A tank is supposed to pop invul, but doesn't and dies to Akh Morn in Shinryu Ex. The next blasts will follow the aggro table, nuking the rest of the party and almost surely causing a wipe.

Examples from Creator (when it was relevant):
- Any single person failing a Time Gate on A12S will cause a guaranteeed wipe.
- Anyone misplacing Defamation on A12S will cause a wipe.
- Anyone clipping the last tower during Limit Cut 2 will cause a wipe.

I could go on, but my point is, Ex Trials and SPECIALLY Savage Content is absolutely full of situations where one person making a mistake will lead to a party wipe. You should really try to do all the content in the game before making these statements, like Deithwen said, it makes it look like you don't know what you're talking about.