Dear Tanks

[Eylirria]

Nonsensical.

DPS scales non-linearly for every class past the 3rd mob (the sweetspot for most classes to go full-on AoE) which results in less time taken overall to kill the same amount of targets.
Every class is capable of decent AoE to get this done in your 4-man runs. Every. single. one -- melee included.

While not everyone can be a BLM/RDM/SMN, every single class can adequately handle AoE.


If you want to clear room by room, in a tactical, controlled, manner -- go do it with people that want to do it like you.
Don't try and force or put down people who put efficiency over... whatever it is you're trying to argue.

[BigRed5392]

Nonsensical.

DPS scales non-linearly for every class past the 3rd mob (the sweetspot for most classes to go full-on AoE) which results in less time taken overall to kill the same amount of targets.
Every class is capable of decent AoE to get this done in your 4-man runs. Every. single. one -- melee included.

While not everyone can be a BLM/RDM/SMN, every single class can adequately handle AoE.


If you want to clear room by room, in a tactical, controlled, manner -- go do it with people that want to do it like you.
Don't try and force or put down people who put efficiency over... whatever it is you're trying to argue.

you can do the same, if you want to pull up to each boss go with people you like, and of like minded intent.

also not ever melee has good aoe skills, monk being 1 of them. some melee do good some don't. SE has been slowly down grading aoe's to stop us from large pulling.

[Rokke]

also not ever melee has good aoe skills, monk being 1 of them. some melee do good some don't. SE has been slowly down grading aoe's to stop us from large pulling.

Monk has good aoe tho, TP lasts longer now then it did in HW.

The only thing SE's really done to curb larger pulls is put up more gates. Its still easy to melt mobs in a dungeon with most DF combos.

[BigRed5392]

Monk has good aoe tho, TP lasts longer now then it did in HW.

The only thing SE's really done to curb larger pulls is put up more gates. Its still easy to melt mobs in a dungeon with most DF combos.

not really if you look at raw damage from aoe vs single target not the tp. And look up spells/skills slowly getting the "more mobs hit, you deal less damage" effects. I have no issue with large pulls, i enjoy them as a smn. (dat bahamut damage yo) but you can't just sit back and ignore the changes SE have been doing, outside more and more gates.

pld has no issue with large pulls but some tanks (drk) has had a lot of their defenses neutered since SB launch. foresight was a big reason large pulls happen since it was a defense boost. now some tanks just have 1-2 damage reduction buffs.

[Rokke]

not really if you look at raw damage from aoe vs single target not the tp. And look up spells/skills slowly getting the "more mobs hit, you deal less damage" effects. I have no issue with large pulls, i enjoy them as a smn. (dat bahamut damage yo) but you can't just sit back and ignore the changes SE have been doing, outside more and more gates.

pld has no issue with large pulls but some tanks (drk) has had a lot of their defenses neutered since SB launch. foresight was a big reason large pulls happen since it was a defense boost. now some tanks just have 1-2 damage reduction buffs.

A DRK may be less of a sponge than a PLD, but as a WHM I can manage to keep both standing while dpsing. My "main" dps is BRD. BRD AoE isn't as good as it was in HW, but its still more than capable dealing with a big pull.

Its true that theres always going to be a class that outshines another within their category but everyone has serviceable AoE going on in SB.

[BigRed5392]

A DRK may be less of a sponge than a PLD, but as a WHM I can manage to keep both standing while dpsing. My "main" dps is BRD. BRD AoE isn't as good as it was in HW, but its still more than capable dealing with a big pull.

Its true that theres always going to be a class that outshines another within their category but everyone has serviceable AoE going on in SB.

my GF mains dark and i play drk on the side, we both large pull. I don't think anyone here is understanding me, and jumping on my case because they are overthinking what I'm saying.

idk how people get "monk aoe suck, drks large pulling sucks" out of my posts when im not saying that at all lol.

i swear people in ff14 lack communication skills, I get mine are not that great. But no need to jump on my case putting words in my mouth claiming im saying something im not.

my g/f met an epic healer in lost city hm. she had 0 issues large pulling, whm didn't drop below 70% mp, her hp was 70% and he was doing good damage, and not stepping on her toes with holy spam. They even took out the final boss as a duo after she accidentally locked out the 2 dps. the whm maintained 50% mp during the fight.

[Awful]

not really if you look at raw damage from aoe vs single target not the tp. And look up spells/skills slowly getting the "more mobs hit, you deal less damage"
pld has no issue with large pulls but some tanks (drk) has had a lot of their defenses neutered since SB launch. foresight was a big reason large pulls happen since it was a defense boost. now some tanks just have 1-2 damage reduction buffs.

The problem with what you posted is Monks AoE is that they are not affected by how many targets you hit, and even if they were AoE is more damage per potency vs single target. If you pull 20 mobs and only single target 1 you're missing a lot damage as a monk and their AoE used to be the melee king in HW it's still good now especially with the low TP costs and using Purifcation on AoE pulls so use it.

To regards to the tanks, yeah Drks lost a lot of their abilities but in terms of dungeons the tanks can equally pull everything and take the same abuse just Pld and War can smooth it out nicer than Drk in relation to CDs. They can all mass pull every single dungeon that's tuned for 70 easily it just takes people to actually press their AoE buttons and nuke everything down which heaven forbid people don't use as well as tanks cycling CDs as it's always been.

[Rokke]

my GF mains dark and i play drk on the side, we both large pull. I don't think anyone here is understanding me, and jumping on my case because they are overthinking what I'm saying.

idk how people get "monk aoe suck, drks large pulling sucks" out of my posts when im not saying that at all lol.

i swear people in ff14 lack communication skills, I get mine are not that great. But no need to jump on my case putting words in my mouth claiming im saying something im not.

my g/f met an epic healer in lost city hm. she had 0 issues large pulling, whm didn't drop below 70% mp, her hp was 70% and he was doing good damage, and not stepping on her toes with holy spam. They even took out the final boss as a duo after she accidentally locked out the 2 dps. the whm maintained 50% mp during the fight.

Im not sure what words Im putting in your mouth. This chain started when you said monk AoE wasn't good and that SB limited AoE. I disagreed about MNK, but agreed with the limiting but find the increase in dungeon gates to be a bigger detriment to big pulls than the new 4.0 AoE. Our DRK/WHM experiences even match up so Im not sure whose jumping on who lol

I think most people are just saying MNK isn't as bad as you originally made it sound.
For what its worth, english isn’t my first language tho so ymmv :P

[BigRed5392]

Im not sure what words Im putting in your mouth. This chain started when you said monk AoE wasn't good and that SB limited AoE. I disagreed about MNK, but agreed with the limiting but find the increase in dungeon gates to be a bigger detriment to big pulls than the new 4.0 AoE. Our DRK/WHM experiences even match up so Im not sure whose jumping on who lol

I think most people are just saying MNK isn't as bad as you originally made it sound.
For what its worth, english isn’t my first language tho so ymmv :P

that wasn't what I was trying to say actually.

i did say "not good" but i meant in terms of other jobs who are better at it. Not once did I say they suck. Also not once did i say large pulling was bad. Just the facts that SE is trying to slow it down. Which they are. No need to jump on my case for stating a fact.

idk what your main langue is but "not good" or "not as good" doesn't mean "garbage" or "terrible" i hope that clarifies.

The problem with what you posted is Monks AoE is that they are not affected by how many targets you hit, and even if they were AoE is more damage per potency vs single target. If you pull 20 mobs and only single target 1 you're missing a lot damage as a monk and their AoE used to be the melee king in HW it's still good now especially with the low TP costs and using Purifcation on AoE pulls so use it.

To regards to the tanks, yeah Drks lost a lot of their abilities but in terms of dungeons the tanks can equally pull everything and take the same abuse just Pld and War can smooth it out nicer than Drk in relation to CDs. They can all mass pull every single dungeon that's tuned for 70 easily it just takes people to actually press their AoE buttons and nuke everything down which heaven forbid people don't use as well as tanks cycling CDs as it's always been.

not what i was talking about with monk. their aoe do not hit as hard as their single target skills. not once did i say monk aoe damaged sucked. I just said not good which i meant as a comparison to sam nin and drg. monk do better at single target then aoe. Monk can deal a good amount of damage in aoe but deal more with their single targets.

I also wasn't saying monks skills had an aoe fall off, but that other jobs skills do or was changed to in sb. which is SE trying to slow down mass dungeon pulling.

so in that regard you are mixing up 2 of my thoughts some how. *shrug*

as for drk tanking, that mostly player to player based, not all players who play tank are good at mass pulling. Drks are great at mass pulling, just again with SE trying to curb mass pulling, their defenses got the shaft.

My g/f had to deal with an immature healer in Arf recently she started to pull, and all the healer did was spam cure. no damage just heal. She (my g/f) wasn't taking much damage and the cast sound started to hurt her ears. So she ask the healer to stop spam curing. At first she asked the healer if they was bored got no reply.
then told them politely to cut it out that the cures were not needed. (my gf hp barely went under 99% before healer cured her) my g/f stopped a sec to adjust her headphones as the healer decides to pull.

gf didn't notice this and accidentally let them die, but really the healer shouldn't have been pulling. my g/f asked why they pulled no reply, then healer declares to not be healing anymore calling my b/f an ass. she tried asking the healer why she said this trying to explain what happen. healer wanted to pick a fight. My g/f just kept trying to plat best she could using AD to get her hp back lol. suck they finished the dungeon faster then they could boot the healer.

but ya skill wise a drk does best in large pulls, if the healer doesn't holy spam during dark price a tank can use DA+AD to keep their hp up with no mp issues. just sucks their defense skills got neutered.


but again, try to read in full, or ask questions. I try my best to communicate but i get sometimes i fk up. I dislike people jumping on my case for being honest or giving my 2 cents from my experience with a monk/drk and personal experience as a mnk/drk. And people jumping on my case over a word use that their head cannon twists.

not once did i say monk aoe suck, or drk suck at large pulling.

[KaijinRhada]

you can do the same, if you want to pull up to each boss go with people you like, and of like minded intent.

also not ever melee has good aoe skills, monk being 1 of them. some melee do good some don't. SE has been slowly down grading aoe's to stop us from large pulling.

I main a monk, and I know for a fact that they can AoE adequately and, with some smart positioning, AoE well. There is still no excuse to not AoE when the situation calls for it.