Built-in Parsers

[BillyKaplan]

If people really want parsers for self improvement, I wonder why not more people have suggested personal parsers. You'll see how much damage and heals you're doing, just no one else. This being an MMO and a community, it won't be long before people know not only how they are performing, but other people's numbers as well. However, it will be done in a situation where no one can use it as a weapon against you because no one knows your numbers unless you tell them. And that can easily lead to situations where people see their numbers are low and seek guidance, instead of feeling uneasy whenever someone goes 'you want a tip?' or any other polite alternative. You're still being called out for under-performance, if not outright harassed for it.

Any other parse that lets you see other people's numbers will be usable as a weapon and lead to harassment, and if it's built-in we'll have to put up with the harassing crowds who currently don't do it because it's against the ToS who'll be allowed to roam free. I agree that if you see harassment happening you should report it, but knowing how toxic people get with this already, I can't blame the devs for preferring to leave it out altogether.

[kikix12]

If people really want parsers for self improvement, I wonder why not more people have suggested personal parsers.

You, and the person before you, haven't read a thing past the word "parser", either.

First, you. Personal parsers are no solution because knowing that you have it, people in the party will tell you to post your numbers and, if they will have a reason to believe you are lying, will want you to make some proof, like upload a screenshot somewhere. I know, this is ridiculous as that would take more time than finishing the dungeon with not-as-efficient DPS would...but hey. People are ridiculous at times.

Second, THERE WILL BE NO NUMBERS SHOWN TO ANYONE UNLESS YOU CHOSE TO DO SO!!!

I AM SUGGESTING AN OPTION THAT WILL BE ENTIRELY BINDING FOR THE ENTIRE RUN!!!

Is THIS clear enough! You turn parsers off, you WILL NEVER be in a party where ANYONE will have any numbers visible at all. You turn them on, you will ONLY be paired with people that have parsers on, so everyone will see them. Second option will make person with parsers on LOSE THEM for the sake of faster queue, if that's what they prefer.

SO STOP TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE KICKING OVER NUMBERS. Nothing will force you to use the parser (thus letting others use theirs) if you don't want to risk getting kicked.

[Enla]

OP, I think you need to take a deep breath.

[DaulBan]

OP, I think you need to take a deep breath.

I mean, I understand if they're frustrated. Threads about parsers tend to get dogpiled by people for/against them and then they start arguing without ever reading the OPs post especially when it attempts to directly offer solutions (or challenges) to things they think about the situation. I imagine it's probably pretty annoying.

[Enla]

I mean, I understand if they're frustrated. Threads about parsers tend to get dogpiled by people for/against them and then they start arguing without ever reading the OPs post especially when it attempts to directly offer solutions (or challenges) to things they think about the situation. I imagine it's probably pretty annoying.

I can agree but at the same time taking a moment to breathe wouldn't go remiss.

[BillyKaplan]

You, and the person before you, haven't read a thing past the word "parser", either.

I think ultimately it doesn't matter because you just explained yourself why most of these options won't work, anyway. And yeah I thought about the 'forcing people to show their numbers' bit later. But they can go around that by declaring such thing to be considered harassment and call it a day. Not that it stopped anyone ever because even on these forums, rude messages are regarded as 'harsh, but just'; people just won't see the difference and things will go on as they are.

You turn parsers off, you WILL NEVER be in a party where ANYONE will have any numbers visible at all. You turn them on, you will ONLY be paired with people that have parsers on, so everyone will see them. Second option will make person with parsers on LOSE THEM for the sake of faster queue, if that's what they prefer.

I get that you're offering this to get around the difficulty discussed prior, but ultimately in the content that really matters, people will really want their parsers, and while it is their choice, you're reducing the amount of people you can team up with for endgame content. And that's also the content you'll queue for pre-made, so queue times won't matter.
As for the faster queue, no dps ever will use a parser at all in real queueable content, and that will kind of miss the mark, wouldn't you say? Other than that, any option that fragments queues is horrible, awful, and likely will not see implementation for this reason alone if no others.

Bottom line is, we don't have any parsers in the game because no matter how you spin and twist it, people will find some way to use it against other players.

[kikix12]

I can agree but at the same time taking a moment to breathe wouldn't go remiss.

I'm naturally asocial, so when 50% of the people (yes I counted, 4 out of 8) don't even bother reading, I'm just more and more convinced there is no point in even trying to interact with people. And it is darned irritating when humans are social species with social needs, me being no exception. No amount of deep breaths will change that.

[XiXiQ]

parsing yourself (or not) is fine, other people's figures are not your concern.

There'll never be anything official however, because it would show quite obviously how latency affects players DPS.

[Ilan]

I know that the reason why built-in parsers are not desired is the fear that the players would abuse each other over the values. However, there is no question about it. Parsers are almost necessary to achieve greater ability at the game. One way or another, it is absolutely mandatory to calculate relative damage and healing output over time, and the only difference between parsers and doing it "manually" is the time and effort it takes. That means that in a static party, people will STILL eventually find out who is holding the group back and can still talk back at them. Even more so since they would need quite a lot of time spent (possibly wasted) before then, thus getting irritated at the player before they could react.
In a random party however, the time is not high enough (unless the group tries to find out who it is specifically...not going to happen) for proper, certain results.

The lack of built-in parsers, however, hurt the players the most. There are many that USE parsers. It's obvious and no one really hides that fact. Developers themselves don't seem to be concerned about people just using them, so long as they don't grieve other players over them. And majorly, they don't. So...why not allow parsers built into the game in the end?!


As a solution, I suggest two buttons in options. "Allow parsers in party on/off" and another, available only if the parsers are on "Allow a party without parsers to decrease queue speed on/off". Basically, the first option will separate the players into two groups, ones that are fine with parsers, another that is not, and normally, they will only look for players within the same category. The other option allows the system to pair a person pro-parsers with a party that is against them, if the queue is taking too long. However, parsers will then be disabled. Either everyone in the party have parsers on, or no one. That way, a player can decide whether they are fine with the risk of coming across the grievers or not.


On a different note, please change the combat messages in chat. "X is dealt Y damage" is useless...Change it to "X's Broil dealt Y damage to Z." What is the point of even HAVING a combat log that doesn't log the darned combat?! I mean, due to PING and/or the way the system works, I often have messages out of whack. It shows that I used an attack (instant!) then it shows to me damage made by someone else, then it shows me damage done by my instant attack...It's ridiculous...

Parsers ingame will not happen because people think that they would get kicked more then now and yoshi p thinks that too. Its a choice of fiction that we don't get it and every ps4 player has to deal with it.

[kikix12]

But they can go around that by declaring such thing to be considered harassment and call it a day.

They'll be kicked for "gameplay difference", so it's not going around anything. Personal parsers won't work. No way they can work. They are there, you're going to be forced to use them or get kicked (well, sometimes, since there are still people that don't care).

I get that you're offering this to get around the difficulty discussed prior, but ultimately in the content that really matters, people will really want their parsers, and while it is their choice, you're reducing the amount of people you can team up with for endgame content. And that's also the content you'll queue for pre-made, so queue times won't matter.

In pre-made parties, people already severely reduce the amount of people they can team up with. So what's the difference?! And if someone will want the parser no matter what, I'd believe they STILL use ACT and similar. And they still would not be able to say anything about it if the party officially have no parsers. So worst case scenario...it's the same as is now for some content while it'd help in some other content for some people.

As for the faster queue, no dps ever will use a parser at all in real queueable content, and that will kind of miss the mark, wouldn't you say? Other than that, any option that fragments queues is horrible, awful, and likely will not see implementation for this reason alone if no others.

Of course DPS will use queues. And there are already options that fragment queues, like the language. The problem with queue is not the lack of people to play it. It's the absurd amount of DPS compared to tanks and healers.

Also, people still "segregate" the queue, instead they do it after it pops. If someone does not want to go with under-performers, they will "disconnect" themselves, initiate kicks and what not (possibly blindly), annoy others to get kicked or just outright leave and take the penalty. Just this weak, I had a party where half of the people just up and left the duty several seconds after it begun, for whatever reason. No one could even manage to really do anything before it happened.