Built-in Parsers

[kikix12]

I know that the reason why built-in parsers are not desired is the fear that the players would abuse each other over the values. However, there is no question about it. Parsers are almost necessary to achieve greater ability at the game. One way or another, it is absolutely mandatory to calculate relative damage and healing output over time, and the only difference between parsers and doing it "manually" is the time and effort it takes. That means that in a static party, people will STILL eventually find out who is holding the group back and can still talk back at them. Even more so since they would need quite a lot of time spent (possibly wasted) before then, thus getting irritated at the player before they could react.
In a random party however, the time is not high enough (unless the group tries to find out who it is specifically...not going to happen) for proper, certain results.

The lack of built-in parsers, however, hurt the players the most. There are many that USE parsers. It's obvious and no one really hides that fact. Developers themselves don't seem to be concerned about people just using them, so long as they don't grieve other players over them. And majorly, they don't. So...why not allow parsers built into the game in the end?!


As a solution, I suggest two buttons in options. "Allow parsers in party on/off" and another, available only if the parsers are on "Allow a party without parsers to decrease queue speed on/off". Basically, the first option will separate the players into two groups, ones that are fine with parsers, another that is not, and normally, they will only look for players within the same category. The other option allows the system to pair a person pro-parsers with a party that is against them, if the queue is taking too long. However, parsers will then be disabled. Either everyone in the party have parsers on, or no one. That way, a player can decide whether they are fine with the risk of coming across the grievers or not.


On a different note, please change the combat messages in chat. "X is dealt Y damage" is useless...Change it to "X's Broil dealt Y damage to Z." What is the point of even HAVING a combat log that doesn't log the darned combat?! I mean, due to PING and/or the way the system works, I often have messages out of whack. It shows that I used an attack (instant!) then it shows to me damage made by someone else, then it shows me damage done by my instant attack...It's ridiculous...

[Vahlnir]

Pretty sure Yoshi P has said "no" to this more times than I can count...vehemently at that. He has taken the "don't ask, don't tell" approach to people who use them though.

[Cold_Raven]

Pretty sure Yoshi P has said "no" to this more times than I can count...vehemently at that. He has taken the "don't ask, don't tell" approach to people who use them though.

This is true.
But I still think he's wrong about that.
And the more we talk about how to implement in-game parsers in a fair, balanced and non-griefable way... the faster he'll change his mind.

[Robert_Ilcri]

No support. We don't need more reasons for people to start kicking people out of groups just because a number was lacking in THEIR own opinion. I know what your reasoning is behind wanting it added, but people without a doubt would use it to just be crap to other players. We've seen it before, we'll see it again.

[kikix12]

No support. We don't need more reasons for people to start kicking people out of groups just because a number was lacking in THEIR own opinion. I know what your reasoning is behind wanting it added, but people without a doubt would use it to just be crap to other players. We've seen it before, we'll see it again.

Eh...How would you see numbers if there are no numbers?!

As I said, I suggest an option to choose whether ANYONE sees the numbers in the party. If you leave it unchecked (as it should be off by default), then you will not meet anyone with a parser on in a party, unless you pre-made it anyway. There will be no way to change that by saying "turn the parsers on or kick". No one will have that chance. You're in without a parser, you cannot get a parser.

I would not give a damn about random jackass getting me kicked here or there. If I would just want to finish a dungeon for daily roulette, for example, within a single run, I'd turn it off. If I had more time to play, I'd turn it on and take my chances. I could get better in the process, and the experience I got up to that point would be mine, anyway.

So long as they continue their "don't ask, don't tell" policy I'm not much fussed either way.

I'm not. I don't want to use parsers even if I wouldn't risk banning due to that policy, simply because they ARE technically a bannable offense.
Not to mention, I don't trust people. They can change that policy and go on a brain-dead war with parsers overnight, and no one will be able to do anything about that since it's there, on paper (well, digital). And it is entirely possible they will. Square Enix and even this team have proven that "never" doesn't mean a darned thing.

[Taika]

No support. We don't need more reasons for people to start kicking people out of groups just because a number was lacking in THEIR own opinion.

Sure, it's much better to kick people because someone thinks their numbers might be lacking, right? Parsers bring transparency: everyone can objectively see who's pulling their weight and who's not. If you get kicked for low numbers, you know exactly what your numbers were and how they compared to the rest of the group. Sure, people can set their own expectations higher than "enough to clear", but that's their right, isn't it? Although personally I don't see that scenario as very likely, as in random party finder groups people seem to settle for "good enough" (and often lower than that, if the group is able to clear). Furthermore, with parsers no one can claim you're doing worse than others or that you're not doing good enough in situations where that isn't true. You can just answer with "no, look, I'm doing just as good as everyone else".

Can you give an example of a practical situation you think might happen with official parsers that would be truly unfair and isn't already happening in a less transparent form with unofficial parsers?

I personally don't think a person getting kicked because of actually constantly performing on a significantly lower level than everyone else in the party in content where performance matter (Savages, Extremes, Ultimate) is in any way unfair. That person should not be in that content in the first place before they can pull their own weight in the party, and they don't have any right to force others to work harder just to carry them through.

Edit: About the suggestion in OP, I think it would be a much simpler solution to just make it a party feature that the party leader can turn on for any content done in a premade party. Then people who wish to use them could join parties where they are available, and people who don't wish to use them won't have to. The content done with premades is already mostly the content where a parser is needed, so it would make sense that way as well.

[Saziel]

snip

Or people can just up their tolerance. I've never said anything negative to/booted anyone even if they consistently mess up. If I have to/am able, I just pick up the slack myself.

[Taika]

Or people can just up their tolerance. I've never said anything negative to/booted anyone even if they consistently mess up. If I have to/am able, I just pick up the slack myself.

People are free to carry others through content, but they shouldn't be forced to. In a content that demands certain level of performance (such as Ultimate as an obvious example), a person coming there and knowingly not pulling their weight is being very disrespectful towards their fellow team members. I actually had one of these today: we put up a PF for OS4 GCO learning. A WHM joined the party. Turns out, they couldn't even clear Exdeath. Logs showed us they had exactly 1 previous kill and that was a (very likely) bought carry. This person had no business joining that party in the first place, and all they did was waste everyone's time.

You can be as tolerant you want, but in my eyes respect goes both ways. No one should be expected to be perfect, mistakes and whatnot should be tolerated, but everyone should also meet the base requirements set by the group and do their best to carry their weight.

Edit: You say you're doing your best to pick up other people's slack, but do you actually even do any of the content I'm talking about here? Couldn't find any current Savage or Extreme logs for you either.

[Deceptus]

No support. We don't need more reasons for people to start kicking people out of groups just because a number was lacking in THEIR own opinion. I know what your reasoning is behind wanting it added, but people without a doubt would use it to just be crap to other players. We've seen it before, we'll see it again.

This line makes no sense. For example, the 2nd boss of Rabanaster. When the spheres spawn you have a certain time limit to destroy them, aka the dreaded DPS check. IIRC someone did the math and it was around 2800 combined dps.

If your alliance is consistently NOT killing the sphere, someone isn't pulling their weight for one reason or another and you'll only be able to tell that with a parser.

They are tool, nothing more. And like any tool they can be used for good or bad.