Tanks and super pulls

[ZStar]

Problem is with that kind of thinking - they always think "Just spam Cure II and Regen" - doesn't work that way... that's how you run out of mana very quickly. The cool-downs have a 120 Second average wait time on them - I've had to experiment as it is because the number of idiot tanks are higher than ever before these days just to bloody survive. And the tank isn't the only one who needs healing...everyone else does as well. Tanks who can self heal should be using that more often if they are super pulling - and most don't even do that. The sad thing of it is - I'm getting better at it...but its miserable for me. I'm gonna end up maining as a tank just because i'm fed up with the carelessness.

-Neph

Totally get you. I play healer too, the mana drain argghh

[wereotter]

You know I've started seeing this.... these "super pull" stunts only work when you have a heavy long range DPS stacked and a whole lot of bloody luck. Lately I keep getting paladins who do stupid things and DPS that seem to be doing literally nothing - when in fact its not that they are doing nothing - they can't keep up with the bloody mess that the tank started.

I've been seeing a lot of this in Skalla lately. Enemies with enormous hit rings that don't always stack well on top of each other which makes spamming AOE as a caster difficult, who telegraph lots of attacks, which makes AOE difficult to impossible as a melee, yet tanks still try to pull literally everything. That said, the dungeon is still probably one of the more fun ones for me, specifically because of the forced slowdown on the last third that actually allows me to use all my moves. Not just Doton, Battletoad, and Death Blossom.

[NephthysVasudan]

I've been seeing a lot of this in Skalla lately. Enemies with enormous hit rings that don't always stack well on top of each other which makes spamming AOE as a caster difficult, who telegraph lots of attacks, which makes AOE difficult to impossible as a melee, yet tanks still try to pull literally everything. That said, the dungeon is still probably one of the more fun ones for me, specifically because of the forced slowdown on the last third that actually allows me to use all my moves. Not just Doton, Battletoad, and Death Blossom.

Cant...resist....meme.

SHOW ME YOUR MOVES!

phew..harder than it looks to resist that.



-Neph

[whiskeybravo]

How about SE make some challenging, savage-style dungeons? I've heard it works pretty well in other games.

If they won't, then you better get over super pulls, cuz there's no point in blowing cds on 3 mob packs.

[bswpayton]

I've been seeing a lot of this in Skalla lately. Enemies with enormous hit rings that don't always stack well on top of each other which makes spamming AOE as a caster difficult, who telegraph lots of attacks, which makes AOE difficult to impossible as a melee, yet tanks still try to pull literally everything. That said, the dungeon is still probably one of the more fun ones for me, specifically because of the forced slowdown on the last third that actually allows me to use all my moves. Not just Doton, Battletoad, and Death Blossom.

ha that dungeons so easy to super pull in done it only twice on pali and its actually so easy to pull all those adds at once, the mistake many tanks m ake is they act like they dont have an aoe themselves if a tank isnt using aoe then they are bad and shouldnt be doing big pulls

[NephthysVasudan]

How about SE make some challenging, savage-style dungeons? I've heard it works pretty well in other games.

If they won't, then you better get over super pulls, cuz there's no point in blowing cds on 3 mob packs.

This is the part where the party starts intentionally hanging back and watching the tank die in a horrible death of foolishness....right?

Cause that's likely going to happen when enough of us get together to do something about it. :P

Don't just assume because "your the mob" that you can get away with it. That's directed at the super pull morons...not the intelligent ones that actually do the job right.

PS: and for the record - I do what I can anyway...even if I die...I still blame the tank for being a dumbass.
-Npeh

[Zojha]

[...]yet tanks still try to pull literally everything.

I would hope they do, because healing small pulls is excessively boring. Aspected Benefic + Wheel of Fortune + Extend = You could go AFK now, your job for the pull is done. In bigger pulls, it's what allows you to spam some Gravities, but in small pulls, it's just utter overkill. I alternate it with Lucid Dreaming + Celestial Opposition + Earthly Star, as the AoE stun also allows for some Gravities and spamming Gravities like that leaves you with little mana. I did notice that in Skalla, melees like to get hit by the landslides in the second passage, but even if they get hit by two, an essential dignity puts them right back to full and they never come back to back, so no harm in keeping them low for a while either - You can also put an Aspected Benefic on them and reserve the Dignity for the Tank, it doesn't matter much.

I personally find big pulls most stressful from the tanking perspective, but that's because the healer is the one in control of my health bar, not me. As healer, I'm the one in control which makes dungeons rather relaxing, big pulls or not. Hence why I generally queue up as AST for tomes, even if I don't consider it my main nor equip it first.

[bswpayton]

This is the part where the party starts intentionally hanging back and watching the tank die in a horrible death of foolishness....right?

Cause that's likely going to happen when enough of us get together to do something about it. :P

Don't just assume because "your the mob" that you can get away with it. That's directed at the super pull morons...not the intelligent ones that actually do the job right.

PS: and for the record - I do what I can anyway...even if I die...I still blame the tank for being a dumbass.
-Npeh

big pulls not gona stop , its acutally one of the more easy things in the game , its no need for threads like this u basicly just do big pulls u wipe u do small puls problem solved. The bad tanks are the ones that fail a large pull, and go right back to taht same pull knowing the outcome.

[NephthysVasudan]

<snip>

No - and If your not healing (when none is needed) - you should be dealing damage - which ironically makes the dungeon go FASTER...not slower.

The Party controls the dungeon...not the tank..not the healer. Everyone does their part...or you don't go anywhere at all.

People assume they have to "go with the tank OR the healer" when in fact we choose to do so based on necessity. All it takes is someone to stand up and just point the direction. Communication - or severe lack of - is the issue here. Sorry - i don't mean to make so much salt over this - but even I know better than to say "The party lives an dies by the healer - CAUSE I SAID SO" - Ain't true...nor is it the case for tanks. We all work together...or we don't work at all.

The reason I've not started "kicking the tank" by refusing to heal is I don't want to get slapped by GM's for being that "guy/gal" who mucks things up. i'd rather warn the tank "Hey....I may screw this up..just so you know" and watch the tank make an ass out of himself/herself when they call me a newbie and then call them out for being a idiot and not know how to read or pay attention. Which subsequently makes DPS'ers laugh at the tank and yeah...you know where that goes.

-Npeh.

[whiskeybravo]

This is the part where the party starts intentionally hanging back and watching the tank die in a horrible death of foolishness....right?

Cause that's likely going to happen when enough of us get together to do something about it. :P

Don't just assume because "your the mob" that you can get away with it. That's directed at the super pull morons...not the intelligent ones that actually do the job right.

PS: and for the record - I do what I can anyway...even if I die...I still blame the tank for being a dumbass.
-Npeh

Perhaps, but the sad fact is - content is not going to get any easier than 4-man dungeons. I mean, I personally try to be considerate and usually stick to double pulls in DF, I only do super pulls when I either bring the dps or healer (or the group asks, which is rare). But if a random healer or dps (or tank for that matter) can't even handle double-pulls, quite frankly they need to just uninstall. Easiest content in the game, maybe outside of guildhests lol. And I don't consider myself to have an elitist attitude or anything, it's just the facts.