Request: Hempen Garb - Racial Unlock

[Skivvy]

I'm not hiding behind anything. I strongly believe that there should be difference between the races and that includes some specific clothing that identifies them such as the hempen set. There are some pretty classic differences there which I might add I enjoy tremendously with my alts. I'm all for glamour and the more the better but I'm also in favor of race specific clothing that make each race special. I'd like to see more of it, not less.

And it didn't go out my window by the way.

I can understand having a personal desire to see race locked clothes, but there is really no valid excuse to keep them race locked outside of the devs not wanting to put in the effort. If they do get unlocked, there is no reason why you would have to start using them on your characters, but it would open up a lot of glamour opportunities for others. Is a miqo wearing hyur undies any worse than that bikini tank we have all run into during dungeon runs?

[LaylaTsarra]

I can understand having a personal desire to see race locked clothes, but there is really no valid excuse to keep them race locked outside of the devs not wanting to put in the effort. If they do get unlocked, there is no reason why you would have to start using them on your characters, but it would open up a lot of glamour opportunities for others. I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem like a miqo wearing hyur undies would be any worse than that bikini tank we've all run into during dungeon runs.

Well we can agree to disagree. Obviously you feel differently and you entitled to your opinion. I want to be sure my voice is heard as well. If it happens well fine but personally I don't think it will.

[Ibkee]

snip

You're missing the point. The Highlander hempen is clearly designed around the Highlander body and lore. Miqo'te are also race locked out of muscle sliders because they aren't race appropriate. Differences between races are believable, normal and encourage the use of Fantasias (a solid impetus for SE not to change the status quo)

Further, I'd argue that it's precisely because Hempen is racially locked that it's so interesting. It's nice to have glamour options that aren't instantly off-putting because they're being worn by thousands of default catgirls in your server alone. The bikini tank you mention is a lore quirk but that's irrelevant, it's overused, boring and ultimately this has been avoided with Hempen simply by keeping it restricted to it's various races.

[DeaconMoore]

You're missing the point. The Highlander hempen is clearly designed around the Highlander body and lore. Miqo'te are also race locked out of muscle sliders because they aren't race appropriate. Differences between races are believable, normal and encourage the use of Fantasias (a solid impetus for SE not to change the status quo)

Further, I'd argue that it's precisely because Hempen is racially locked that it's so interesting. It's nice to have glamour options that aren't instantly off-putting because they're being worn by thousands of default catgirls in your server alone. The bikini tank you mention is a lore quirk but that's irrelevant, it's overused, boring and ultimately this has been avoided with Hempen simply by keeping it restricted to it's various races.

Actually I think you're missing the point, it's a piece of clothing, not some holy relic that only responds to those of true blood. >.>

Holding these hostage for Fantasias sales? Really? How does that work exactly? I mean for me, I like the look of a female Highlander, but I hate their Hempen set. I do however like the look of the female Midlander hempen set but I don't like the look of the Midlander females. Why on earth would I fantasia to a race choice I don't like? Here's a hint, I wouldn't!

Really all I read in your post is a personal distaste for all the catgirls running around being your main problem with the set losing the racial lock.

[Ibkee]

Snip

Whether you would fantasia for glam or not is irrelevant, people do and many on this forum (when this thread has appeared previously) have admitted to doing so for Hempen alone. The differences between miqo'te, au ra and midlander females are negligible in many people's eyes and something as small as unique underwear can swing the decision.

Here's the rub: I'm a Highlander and I hate Highlander Hempen and never actually use it. But it was designed for Highlander, clearly from both a physical and lore POV, and is another unique aspect of the race. Making all the races the same is not the answer and it's clearly not a policy SE is on board with.

And yes, the fascination with Elezen, Roe and Highlander Hempen is primarily because there aren't a plethora of catgirls running around with it right now. That's a good thing.

[DeaconMoore]

Whether you would fantasia for glam or not is irrelevant, people do and many on this forum (when this thread has appeared previously) have admitted to doing so for Hempen alone. The differences between miqo'te, au ra and midlander females are negligible in many people's eyes and something as small as unique underwear can swing the decision.

Here's the rub: I'm a Highlander and I hate Highlander Hempen and never actually use it. But it was designed for Highlander, clearly from both a physical and lore POV, and is another unique aspect of the race. Making all the races the same is not the answer and it's clearly not a policy SE is on board with.

And yes, the fascination with Elezen, Roe and Highlander Hempen is primarily because there aren't a plethora of catgirls running around with it right now. That's a good thing.

And again, you're missing the point.

Yes, people will fantasia for very silly trivial reasons. They will continue to do so even if the hempen set loses it's racial lock.

Clothing does not make a race unique. Clothing can be changed at the drop of a hat. Clothing is not a physical part of your being. Clothing is transitory. You are not your khakis.

And yet again we see it's your distaste for the existence of catgirls fueling your bias.

If they unlock it it's not like they'll suddenly multiply overnight. It's not like lalas getting doused with water and getting fed past midnight.

[Ibkee]

Snip

All that dodges the point, which is that racial gear exists (indeed gear unobtainable by many combinations of jobs and genders) and this is unlikely to change at this point.

The fact I used Highlander female Hempen, which didn't exist in 1.0, as an example clearly went over your head.

Snip

You're right, I'm intentionally not arguing your point.

People can and do fantasia for glamour. Why do you think SE would have reason to change a long-since-established impetus for players to pay money for Fantasias?

You want new glamour options! Great, welcome to the club with just about every other player of the game. What you and those who agree with you have yet to demonstrate is why Hempen alone should have it's racial lock removed. Why not make all gear available to all races and all genders and all jobs? Or is it only because underwear?

[Oscura]

What you and those who agree with you have yet to demonstrate is why Hempen alone should have it's racial lock removed. Why not make all gear available to all races and all genders and all jobs? Or is it only because underwear?

To be fair, what you and yours have yet to demonstrate why it shouldn't be unlocked just because it doesn't fit your specific criteria. It's a two way street. Job specific gear is completely irrelevant to the hempen sets. You are creating an argument specifically for your own personal tastes instead of anything based on proper logic or anything with actual numerical support like the incredibly flimsy "fantasia," argument. You cannot prove whether or not people buy fantasias specifically for hempen or racial gear aside for anecdotal nonsense, so it is completely irrelevant. You can keep repeating garbage but it won't turn into gold.

Edit: Also "I'm intentionally not arguing your point." You're ignoring a point because you cannot argue against it, and then stating that there is "no demonstration of why it alone should have it's racial lock removed." You are picking and choosing what you are listening to and more specifically what is and isn't valid based purely on your own bias. The fact that you continue to waste everybody's time by even stating such a thing is just... incredible.

[Serilda]

All that dodges the point, which is that racial gear exists (indeed gear unobtainable by many combinations of jobs and genders) and this is unlikely to change at this point.

I think the fact that they have deliberately added a NPC wearing another race's underwear in the last patch calls that last point into question, especially in the wake of them going out of their way to post an official response on the previous debate thread. It completely blows apart any argument that the underwear models are special snowflake items that can only be worn by specific races, and seems like a deliberate tease when they have tended to put townspeople in the 'correct' Hempen gear historically.

What you and those who agree with you have yet to demonstrate is why Hempen alone should have it's racial lock removed. Why not make all gear available to all races and all genders and all jobs? Or is it only because underwear?

It's more that it's one of very few examples where items are race locked at all and unlike the starting gear, there's no lore reason for underpants and thermal vests to be viewed as important racial artifacts. I think some of us are pretty vocal about certain other unlocks we'd like to see happen too, except this is something everyone can get behind without so much pushback. Furthermore, it's an incredibly easy way for people to get a large number of new glamour pieces (ten completely new items for everyone!) with close to zero effort from the design team in most cases. In other words, it's a cheap way for S-E to add more content. Being a business, I'm sure S-E appreciates that they can do something relatively easy to please a large number of people.

I also think a lot of gender locks should go, for example, the Werewolf Feet versus Werewolf Legs. All werewolves have both feet and legs and the models aren't especially gendered (in fact, the female boots would hide an unsightly gap on the male legs, while I'm sure someone somewhere out there has a female character and a strange UGG boot obsession). Why lock things for the sake of locking them?

--

Editing my post.

I honestly find it hard to understand why anyone would oppose this (though I appreciate a few do). I tried to work through the arguments but none of them hold up to me.

- I don't want to use the other races' Hempen items.
- You don't have to use them.

- I don't want other people to use other races' Hempen items.
- Everyone has to deal with seeing characters they don't think look attractive now and then. We survive. If you're a roleplayer, you can even use your character's reaction to provoke interesting discussions.

- Catgirls just want access to sexy clothes so that they can be even sexier.
- So what? This is the same as the 'guys just want to wear skirts' moralising nonsense we get in the male bunny suit threads. It's not true for most people; several pieces are perfectly concealing. And even if it is true for some, it's nobody's place to police how and why other people dress their characters. If it's ok for Hyur/Au Ra/Elezen to dress sexily, it's ok for Miqo'te to do so as well. If it's ok for Miqo'te to have a tight t-shirt, it's ok for Roegadyn who want to show less skin to have that option. Whether the player is doing it to be sexy or doing it for some other reason is irrelevant; this is a game, not a church meeting.

- I only play (insert race here) because I can equip special underwear, so giving it to everyone else is unfair.
- You play a race/gender combination you don't like for underwear? Then this is good news. You can be free to choose your character's race for a different reason.

- Giving everyone more items makes everyone look the same.
- Since we can each only wear one item per slot at a time, this should never happen unless one item is substantially better than any other, overriding all matters of individual taste and turning entire servers into armies of clones. And if that's the case, I would think that the amazing item really should be available to everyone and the designers should work on creating other items with similar looks. Making everyone wear ugly gear they don't like to artifically force them to look different makes a mockery of the idea of racial diversity. Nobody's going to mistake my Elezen for a Lalafell even with the same pants on.

- It would destroy the game's established lore if people could wear different underpants.
- Proven false by NPCs ignoring the lock. Also, Yda's non-race-locked cash shop outfit borrows from one of the Hempen models, so players can ignore the lock too in certain circumstances. The only 'lore' justification is that the Highlander talismans are meant to be cultural, but if we start citing real world examples of cultural attire repurposed for fashion we'll be here all day. It's some bits of wood tied together by string. Anyone can make their own version of that.

- S-E won't do it because they made them race-locked in the first place.
- I already posted a response from the devs saying that the requested had been forwarded; now I'll post an excerpt from the JP forum. This is more attention than most other issues tend to get from the devs!

着用した際、種族ごとに異なるグラフィックになる、カミーズやアンダーシャツなどの裝備については、前向きに検討を行っています。

So as of last month, they were looking into the equipment which has a different appearance depending on the player's race, such as the Hempen Camise and Undershirt. The context of this dev response is a reply to a player who queried the question asked at the European Fan Festival; Yoshida was asked to unlock the Hempen sets but the translator didn't recognise the English names (they aren't called 'Hempen' in Japanese) and asked the wrong question. The poster of that thread corrected the error and requested that the race-locked visuals be made available to everyone; in response the Japanese team went out of their way to reply that it was being looked into.

I would say that all signs are good for unlocked Hempen appearances in the near future.

[Magic-Mal]

All that dodges the point, which is that racial gear exists (indeed gear unobtainable by many combinations of jobs and genders) and this is unlikely to change at this point.

The fact I used Highlander female Hempen, which didn't exist in 1.0, as an example clearly went over your head.

Clearly it went over your head. Whether or not Highlander Female existed in 1.0 has no impact on 2.x to now because they'd have to adhere to the 1.0 coding that's already in the game that they didn't remove. Which involves the sake customization locks and hempen locks. I like how you completely glossed over all the things you were wrong about and claimed it went over my head though.

EDIT: Also you seem to just be completely cutting out the visual evidence that it IS likely to happen for no reason.

Why not just say "I don't want it" and leave it at that? Because that's all you have to stand on. The arguments are bogus.