Monk ignored for 4.1

[MauvaisOeil]

It's not much of a debate since there's a multitude of moves across the board that feature more than one hit in one skill. Rage of Halone is 5 slashes, Hard/Power Slash and Delirium are two hits and Carve and Spit is three, Heavy Thrust has a thrust and downwards slash, most of Ninja's basic rotation has more than one hit. By that idea, does it not also fit the idea of "a flurry of fast blows?"

The ramp-up is also a part of the identity, as I view it. Perfect Balance is highly indispensable in Monk's kit, mainly opener, and the large CD of it (albeit ridiculous) emphasizes just how critical it is to maintain GL3 once it's achieved, which is also why Tornado Kick is so disappointing in its intended use. The solo content matter of positionals is a non-issue, positionals are meant for party play in EVERY aspect of itself. Most everyone agrees on the effect of RoE reset being triggered on damage being counterproductive.

But you're right, the job remains mostly the same, which is the point of what people have been saying in this thread, at least. It's like people become upset when their favorite job shows no advancement.

This is really about everyone's view. I would have prefered one punch/kick animation (like twin snake, true strike and snap punch) with a really faster attack rate, than thoses swinging around like Dragon tackle, bootshine, demolish, and on a different instance : Forbidden Chakra and Tornado kick.

I view my monk as a big hitter with crucial and critical hits, more than someone that unleash an unmastered flurry of blows. But well, I play a roegadyn.. so...


About the positionnal, soloing as a monk is still boring, because the ramp up and positionnal mostly makes you half (78% of 66%) of what you can deal in group content. At least Fists of Eart / Riddle of earth could have eased on the solo side, with removal of positionnal for a cost of overall damage. The 3min CD on PB doesn't allow you to really ramp up GL while running from one mob to another, loosing stacks before having enough HP or beeing in range of the next ennemy.

One skill I enjoyed in the previous PVP, was Salto : 5s of perfect balance were enough to ramp up to GL 3 with a few form shift, and thus, not to be naked as hell constantly. I would have loved to have something like that, or a 60s PB to be able to unleash some power sometimes, out of group relevant content.

Why is the monk the weakest of the melee soloer, while carrying the picture of a martial artist ? I don't know.

[Xaert]

This isn't about what we all would've preferred Monk to be, it's about what Monk has been and of what is comprised of it and where it needs to improve upon. We all have our own ideas of the perfect or ideal Monk, but what we have is what the Devs give. Monk WAS (and I will argue, still is) meant to be the flurry of blows of both speed AND power, not the heavy one hitter with the big numbers. That, in both body and soul currently, is Samurai for Melee and BLM for Magic/Ranged.

As for your positional stance, again, soloing is not the intended use of positionals. With soloing, if you're having trouble killing enemies, you're most likely undergeared, and that's a drastic statement since there's unlikely to be any difficulty soloing outside of FATEs, which are also intended to have multiple participants. Both RoE and RoW are ideal for soloing, if this is a point you're willing to accept, for the damage mitigation actually being useful if you'd like to sacrifice your general 5% increase from FoF, whereas RoW would function as the gap closer between sets of mobs. Either way, stance dancing between these is entirely up to how you want your soloing experience to be, regardless of how negligible or useful or relevant you want them them to be.

The ideas for a reworked Riddle of Earth are far and wide, whereas all it would need to be bearable is to proc on skill activation and not upon damage. Perfect Balance's CD has been a long controversial issue, and most of the Monk community is still in confusion as to why it hasn't been altered.

PVP and PVE are two totally different monsters to balance, and RoE and RoW feel like they were solely intended to be for PVP and were just incorporated into PVE for lack of better ideas. For the monk being the weakest of the solo squad, that's due to how to the Devs built Monk to be, for better or worse, which is why people want to see changes for their class that don't take away from the "finished" job and instead progress upon it.

[MauvaisOeil]

This isn't about what we all would've preferred Monk to be

That's a basic statement that isn't exclusive to anyone, and quoting hamon from one single quest won't make your statement "the thing it should have been" but "What I choose to see".

I'm not talking about difficult to kill anything, but boredom to have to ramp up only to kill the ennemy once it's done. You don't care about solo content or levelling ? Fine. Is your opinion the truth and core thing to follow ? No, neither am I.

Sorry if my mindset dilute your idea, but as every customer has the freedom to write here, same goes about everyone. Even self-made leaders of the "how common things are and were and should be".

[SpeckledBurd]

-Brotherhood complaints-

It occurred to me if they changed Brotherhood's interaction for Monk from gaining procs at random to giving Monk an effect that removes the Chakra requirements for Chakra Abilities it would solve a lot of the issues with it. There's no RNG so Monk's output would be consistent regardless of party comp, so it wouldn't feel like a total whiff to use in 4-mans or caster heavy comps, if there were multiple Monks there wouldn't be an issue with overwriting each others chakras, it wouldn't even be a buff to Monk (or at least, not a particularly large one) since Forbidden Chakra is already throttled behind a 5-second cooldown, so you'd just get 3 Forbidden Chakras per Brotherhood (one at 1 second, 6 seconds, and 11 seconds) which is basically just the best case scenario for the skill.

[Zarkovitch]

i think monk damages is fine BUT needs abit buff cuz smn changes.but some abilities of stomblood needs QOL like brotherhood,riddle fire,riddle earth,mastery tackles,mantra

Brotherhood:brotherhood is so melees centric i want to work on caster too so it wont feel like gabage with caster comp OR give buff to us too cuz new devotion apply buff on smn why not to us too.Make brotherhood stack when there mnks.Add side effect when second brotherhood is apply you dont gain 5% of it but you get your chakras.
Riddle Of Fire:Feel slow/clunky reduce dmg 5%(so it be 25%) on remove speed penality.Add 50% TP reduce
Riddle Of Earth:It need to freeze GL when roe buff is up perfect for long downtime.
Tackle Mastery:Make it something useful.
Mantra:smn got shetty mantra on devotion i want shetty devotion on my mantra.
Unerf some positionals moves cuz how cray smn dps are rn.
Here you go mnk is fun again.

[Oscura]

Anyone who thinks Monk hasn't been ignored for a good while is in proper denial. 2.1 was the only time the class received any huge changes to its kit or how it performed. Everything else that has been added (or removed) afterward has been nothing but incomplete ideas and utter nonsense. I keep thinking I want to play the class seriously until I remember that I can play any of the other melee counterparts and have a kit that isn't a mess that was regurgitated from the minds of whoever works on the class in the first place. The class is incredibly stale, and many of the changes made to it add absolutely zero incentive to enjoy playing it. The kit has so many holes in it that have been constantly mentioned that at this point Monk players are getting tired of talking about it. I had faith in Square Enix that seeing as this would be the "Monk" expansion the same way HW was Dragoon's, that they would take extra care with the class. After seeing the mess called Tackle Mastery and the literal deconstruction of Monk's playstyle in Riddle of Fire, as well as ToD/Fracture being removed, it just feels sluggish. Brotherhood is simply a personal cooldown disguised as raid utility.

Monk does plenty of DPS and does DPS quite well, but if a class isn't fun then there's no point in playing it. It will always be one of the least popular jobs because of that.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

They actually said in the live letter (unofficially translated) that any jobs not mentioned here and now will not be changed. So the comment about waiting for patch notes was ridiculous in the first place.

People always say it. It feels like it's some kind of white knight defense mechanism set in place to delay disappointment or something at this point.

Anyway, it's pretty clear that Monk needs a full rework. Speed is no longer their thing, and SE seems to be terrified of making us go faster. So what we end up with is a job that moves as fast as a Ninja, with a longer ramp up, positionals up the ass and beyond punishing downtimes because for whatever reason, PB is still on a billion minute CD.

[Greywolfamakir]

I really dont undestand why people ask things like "Monk should be more fun" "SE have to improve gameplay of Monk..." and at the same time, the same ppl post ideas to fix Monk like:

"Brotherhood should increase magic damage" or
"Make brotherhood increases damage to monk" or
"Increase potency when you miss positionals" or
"PB half CD"...

If you think that this kind of "enhancements" are what monk needs you dont think about "fun" or "gameplay", you think about "GET THE MONK INTO META !!!"

[SpeckledBurd]

-snip-

The only one of those you're claiming that's a straight buff to Monk is Increasing Magic Damage and Brotherhood giving its 5% to Monk, and of those two the desire for Brotherhood applying to casters is partially a quality of life issue. Because Brotherhood doesn't apply to casters, if we end up in a caster heavy comp via the Duty Finder our level 70 skill for all intents and purposes may as well not exist. It's fucking miserable to simultaneously have Riddle of Fire reduce our cast time so we can double weave...only to not actually get any chakras so we have nothing to double weave. I don't need for it to buff magic damage, but it should at least proc off spells or have some other way of giving us chakras so we actually have consistent output instead of getting slowed down so we can weave a bunch of skills we're not getting. The increase in missed positional damage isn't a buff to monk at the top end, it just makes it less punishing to face tank mobs or miss positionals. You know what melee jobs have received this QOL fix? Every melee Job with positionals except Monk, so we've simultaneously got the most positionals and the most to lose from them.

AND 1/2 PB? IT'S LITERALLY WHAT GIVES US OUR PERSISTENT DAMAGE BUFF. IT'S NOT LIKE ASKING TO FIRE OFF TORNADO KICK WITHOUT LOSING OUR STACKS WITH ABANDON. DRAGOON AND BLACK MAGE HAVE EQUIVALENT SKILLS ON A 30 SECOND COOLDOWN TO GET A LONGER BUFF. There is no reason it should be 3 minutes long unless you think Monk should be the only job that gets screwed over by the boss going untargetable 90 seconds into the fight like so many love to do.

Not a one of these changes would get Monk into the Meta, it would just make monk less of a massive pain in the ass to play.

Edit: Also any actual recommendation that can make to improve Monk can just be called a buff in a vacuum. Returning Touch of Death/Fracture and making the Demolish timer to 21 seconds? It would improve the job's flow but also technically be a buff to our potency per minute. Some kind of Umbral Hearts esque system where Monk gains stacks of something for refreshing Greased Lightning so we can use a powerful attack can be called a buff. Even changing Tackle Mastery into something like "Form Mastery" which removes the time limit on our forms and allows us to refresh Greased Lightning by formshifting through Coeurl could even be called a buff, even if it just makes the job at best equivalent to Dragoon and Black Mage in ability to maintain our persistent buff through downtime.

It's not like Monk is super OP at the moment in the way Ninja is. It actually is probably a bit lower than what it should be being behind Summoner (which has slightly better raidwide buffs) and tied with Machinist (which has much better raidwide buffs), so who cares if improvements to our quality of life also coincidentally improve it's ability as a DPS? Certainly not the devs. They've buffed the DPS of Summoner in the course of tweaking it to the point where it's within one percent of Samurai's damage on most fiights, they buffed Bard's DPS when they reduced the recast on Barrage and the duration of Straight Shot (when it was already one of the strongest jobs mind you), and they buffed Machinist's DPS so substantially that it's currently tied with Monk for DPS while offering better support as well (again, when it was already one of the strongest jobs).

[Exiled_Tonberry]

"GET THE MONK INTO META !!!"

Everything I wanted to say was already said by SpeckledBurd, but seriously. At least attempt to actually read the thread instead of jumping in and claiming that we're just asking for buffs.
Everything we're discussing in here is to help Monk's current playstyle and clunkiness, not push us into the meta.

Why should Monk be so heavily reliant on physical comps to the point where we're massively gimped if we happen to have two casters?

Why is Monk, the job with the most positionals, the only job that hasn't gotten decreased punishment for missed positionals, especially in a raid tier where everything seems to want to face the group and screw up everything.

Why should Monk's "buff" work against them to the point where Demolish has to be either clipped heavily or is dropped for a tick?

You would have to actually play Monk to k ow exactly how bad all of this and more is.